Realism Invictus

[SR-71]

The spread of resources is determined by the CIV4BonusInfos file. I have ammended mine and this adds a much more even spread of resources, though some are still restricted to one continent. Crab, Marble, Stone, Whale and Incense seemed very rare in most games, they are more common using the attached file, unpack it here - Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Realism\Assets\XML\Terrain. It should replace the existing file and you should notice a more even and realistic spread of resources.

Only banana, corn, rice, sheep, lemon, cotton, wheat, tobacco, ivory, silk, spices, sugar, coffee, potato and hemp are restricted to one continent, pretty much in line with what I could find on the natural and historical distribution of the in-game resources.

A question before playing with your xml: the resources are restricted

a) only at start, but they can spread afterwards (by farms and so) or
b) they are completely restricted and won't ever spread out of its continent

I say it because if is a) I'm very interested, because it's the most realistic and interesting, but if is b) I prefer should be a) I don't know really yet if this feature is limited/controlled by this file so I ask.

Thx again for your contribution

 

[aml666]

SVN 4496

Something is missing with this event:

TXT_KEY_EVENT_TRIGGER_INDEX

"A new list of publications prohibited by the
Catholic Church is promulgated"


This is the best Civ Mod I have ever played.

 

[sjodster]

...the AI seems to know where the resources are before appearing, because, as an example, it's constantly attacking a city from the beginning which has Iron very close BUT MANY YEARS BEFORE DISCOVERING IRON WORKING . And in all my previous games there's a lacking of bronze, iron, stone, horses... and the AI runs very fast to them, expanding too fast and getting them too early before I can't do anything...

Although I agree with some things, you're exagerating a bit which does not help the cause. If RI AIs follow normal BTS rules then they do not know where a resource is before the unveiling tech (and why would the RI team change that?) . It was just a coincidence.

I don't say it's a RI issue nor I think they could change it purposely, but no doubt the AI has been changed to accommodate the new changes on RI, so the IMHO unfair things I've seen, so could be an strange unintentional bug.
Anyway, I`ll try another game because you could be right, but I'm very used to observe the Ai strategies, which are usually right, of attacking again and again vital resource cities, but this time I was surprised why it was obsessed on this city, and was absolutely frozen when i saw, after Iron working, why it was so... Strange coincidence but perhaps only that.

I don't think we've modified much of the AI's city evaluation code ourselves, but we do have K-MOD 1.38 merged into our mod and I know that Karadoc completely overhauled most of that code. He is very careful to remove any unfair advantages or insights that the AI may have; so if the AI is aware of something it shouldn't be then that's a bug, not an intentional design feature.

I even remember a discussion on the K-Mod thread about the AI always building in-place on turn 0. Karadoc noted that it's a good idea for the AI to do this because players initially get positioned according to all bonuses in the area, not just the ones that the player can see at the start. If the AI moved it wouldn't be able to pick the best starting location later because it wouldn't be aware of the resources that it can't see yet, unlike the initial player location plotter.

I'm sure there are a lot of factors that go into what cities the AI targets, especially with Karadoc's modifications. I am almost certain that resources are a major factor in that evaluation, and one of the significant drivers of its city placements. The AI in K-Mod every so often will go out and plant cities a ways out from the center of its empire, so don't be too surprised when it does this to grab resources. If the AI is technologically more advanced than you, it may be able to see them before you can.

Now, having said all that, I'll keep your report in mind. Eventually I may find some time to review the city target code myself, but presently I just don't have the time to look at it. If anyone else can corroborate the observation that the AI appears to have inappropriate insight into resource locations, please let us know and I may prioritize the issue more highly.

-Josh

 

[Hian the Frog]

SVN 4496

Something is missing with this event:

TXT_KEY_EVENT_TRIGGER_INDEX

"A new list of publications prohibited by the
Catholic Church is promulgated"


This is the best Civ Mod I have ever played.

Thanks.

Corrected.

 

[Hian the Frog]

Hi All,

AID system almost totally reworked. Buttons included.
Some Japanese unit - buiding - wonder now also have their own buttons.
Etc.

Revision 4503

Good game,

Yann

 

[SR-71]

Now, having said all that, I'll keep your report in mind. Eventually I may find some time to review the city target code myself, but presently I just don't have the time to look at it. If anyone else can corroborate the observation that the AI appears to have inappropriate insight into resource locations, please let us know and I may prioritize the issue more highly.

-Josh

Thanks for your answer. I'll continue playing more and observing carefully the AI behaviour, specially this one

THx

 

[SR-71]

The spread of resources is determined by the CIV4BonusInfos file. I have ammended mine and this adds a much more even spread of resources, though some are still restricted to one continent. Crab, Marble, Stone, Whale and Incense seemed very rare in most games, they are more common using the attached file, unpack it here - Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Realism\Assets\XML\Terrain. It should replace the existing file and you should notice a more even and realistic spread of resources.

Only banana, corn, rice, sheep, lemon, cotton, wheat, tobacco, ivory, silk, spices, sugar, coffee, potato and hemp are restricted to one continent, pretty much in line with what I could find on the natural and historical distribution of the in-game resources.

I've started a game with your xml and for my personal taste is, as you said, really much more fair and realistic distribution than RI base, so I prefer yours. I'd suggest RI team looking it because it's very interesting

But i'm still waiting the answer to my previous question about ingame spreading of resources

Thx on advance

P.S. Vital resources like copper, iron or coal are still scarce IMHO, specially in huge maps. Also, horses are veery limited too, but this perhaps can be understood some, because in real life there were not horses in America, so in some continent in RI. Would you tweak them a little bit? If you don't, i'd try myself making my own xml

 

[Ahnarras]

Got a problem with the wine ressource. Dunno if i have bad luck or what, but in every game where i find wine, there is always 2/3 or more of that ressource on the same spot. As i don't do a lot of commerce, it's kinda pointless.
I will try the change made by Antmanbrooks and see if the ressource are more realistic with that ^,^

 

[SR-71]

Hi again! I'm completely dissapointed with the new combat system. Don't know exactly why, lately with the new SVNs I'm having completely absurd combat results, whuch benefit the AI completely unfairly. Does not matter if I have walls, castle, ecc intact: AI attacks with cav having the stupid and annoying flanking bonus, pathetic units attack the city with great results, don't mind if they have an stacking malus, don't mind if they are cav or what... the results are good for the Ai.

On the other part, is completely unthinkable for me (player) attacking none city even without a wall, because losses are enormous. The game has become unfair, boring, stressing and pointless. The AI attacks every 10 turns, amounting an enormous stack. If I attack it, it's a massacre. Oh, and the barbarians seems to be coordinated with AI civs, attacking from two or three fronts at the same time. And the worst result are on city combat, with is really bad implemented at this moment

I see that much of forummates seem this as very amazing, but IMHO it's a masochism issue... Don't matter what I do, the AI will come with an enormous and absurd stack and will prevail, and in noble level!!!!! Sincerely I have the sensation I've wasted all the afternoon playing this game.

I add the 4503 savegame where the AI immediately attacks Paris, so perhaps some of you could try it and see if the results are as expected and intended, or there is some stupid or unfair. If you think the results are as desired, sure I won't play it again, or perhaps on the lowest level (with the risk of the AI being too dumb and boring through the game) because after so enormous amounts of playing and revs this game is becoming too stressing and absurd for me, there is a limit between fun and overwhelming disadvantages.

Oh, something I forgot!: one of the main outragin issues are the "combat odds" appearing. They say 90% ok and 10% bad... and I lose many times... And of course, if they say 10% ok and 90% I lose ever Jokes apart, I would want to know if the combat odds are accurate or they have some problem

Sorry for the extension, but I want to give the more detailed explanations. And please someone try the savegame and tell if is "as is"

Thx on advance guys

P.S. The "stacking malus" does not seem to be applied on combat or only on the odds, please review it!!!

 

[aml666]

I am very happy to see the leader attitude icons back. Thank you!

 

[SR-71]

After a cooler reflection about the issue and the AI behaviour, I encourage all the RI team very strongly to increase the stacking malus, in case you see it really runs as desired. It's really annoying to see those distasteful and unpleasant stacking that the AI does, and I see how the ridiculous and pathetic only 15% of overstacking malus did affect little to combat, specially on rough terrain which increases the bonus to a nasty one

You could increae it at least to a 25%, or simply preventing the AI to make them. IMHO this could do much more fair the fight, because it's completely annoying the same ever, 30-40 units stack (and I really dunno how it can maintain those armies, this is another question ) with a riduculous penalty...

Hope you'll take the suggestion, in case not, please PM me with the way to increase the malus, so I can make it myself, for enjoying a bit more the game.

Thx on advance

 

[SR-71]

I am very happy to see the leader attitude icons back. Thank you!

I subscribe . The fact that I'm dissapointed with the present Ai, does not change that this is the best CIV4 mod. Because of this, perhaps I'm a bit obsessed on enjoying it

 

[SR-71]

Here it is an savegame as example of what I'm speaking about. In this savegame you can see how tha Spanish Ai forms two great stacks in only 10 turns and which is worse with only 6 cities!!!!!

I have 7 cities, and cannot replace losses and maintain so much ones, and having money and time for research, and so, having one religion, and religious money buildings, which AI has none... I think herés the proof that the game is unbalanced and the AI overpowered.

I think that at present the AI seems to have all the benefits of Barbarians and none of this disadvantages I enjoy a lot with the new challenging barbarian tribes, but I cannot stand to see the Ai civ making the same. Something it's exaggerated IMHO

Greetings

P.S. Simple Arithmetic: Two stacks +- 40 units/6 cities=6.66 units per city. 10 turns(peace)/6.66 units=1.5 turns per unit using all cities and without taking in consideration the time for moving them to an extreme of the map to another... Completely unfair, it isn't?

 

[SR-71]

Trying to have a more pleasant experience with the game, I would want to know how the difficult level and the option "AI plays to win" affect to the game in RI. I ask hoping that changing one of them perhaps will tweak the AI excessive advantages that for my taste it has.

Thx

 

[Ahnarras]

I'm currently testing the Perfect Mangoose map generator included in your mod, and i really enjoy it so far. But is there a way to put an option to reduce the number of ressource it generate? Or change it by myself maybe?

Edit: Nevermind, i figured it out :]

 

[Hian the Frog]

Here it is an savegame as example of what I'm speaking about. In this savegame you can see how tha Spanish Ai forms two great stacks in only 10 turns and which is worse with only 6 cities!!!!!

I have 7 cities, and cannot replace losses and maintain so much ones, and having money and time for research, and so, having one religion, and religious money buildings, which AI has none... I think herés the proof that the game is unbalanced and the AI overpowered.

I think that at present the AI seems to have all the benefits of Barbarians and none of this disadvantages I enjoy a lot with the new challenging barbarian tribes, but I cannot stand to see the Ai civ making the same. Something it's exaggerated IMHO

Greetings

P.S. Simple Arithmetic: Two stacks +- 40 units/6 cities=6.66 units per city. 10 turns(peace)/6.66 units=1.5 turns per unit using all cities and without taking in consideration the time for moving them to an extreme of the map to another... Completely unfair, it isn't?

Unit production, as well as many other factors, is linked to many XML files. One of them is the HandicapInfo. In short: the more the difficulty is great, the more the AI will receive bonus and players will receive malus. Everything can be explained. You can meet the same problem (bonus/malus) with Inflation, unit maintenance, civic upkeep, city growth, barbarian attacks, etc.

There's no need to get irritated: we know the problem - which is not so big anyway - and we're working on it.
Be patient. It will come sooner or later.

 

[SR-71]

Unit production, as well as many other factors, is linked to many XML files. One of them is the HandicapInfo. In short: the more the difficulty is great, the more the AI will receive bonus and players will receive malus. Everything can be explained. You can meet the same problem (bonus/malus) with Inflation, unit maintenance, civic upkeep, city growth, barbarian attacks, etc.

There's no need to get irritated: we know the problem - which is not so big anyway - and we're working on it.
Be patient. It will come sooner or later.

Thanks for your answer. It's not a real irritation It happens that to test completely a new SVN I need many hours of play, and restartings, and after them it's a bit frustrating, at least for me, to see the game become unplayable again and again.

Also it's the fact that I was not sure that which for me is unfair, could be considered "challenging" or "amazing" for others, so I was not sure if you consider it a problem or not. If you got the problem, I'm used to be absolutely patient and wait for the solution, as was on sooo many others SVN Fortunately, your team normally gets the solutions usually sooner than later...

Resuming, the problems IMHO are:

- AI overpowered/overproducing out of control, resulting in bizarre amounts of units camping on the countryside
- Difficult levels not balanced, resulting in too much difficult for a very low level game
- AI excessive overstacking, with very reduced penalty in case. This degenerates on nearly impossibility of field combat for player
- Application in battle of bonus/malus (specially stacking malus) and AIDs, which due to bizarre AI stacking, makes nearly a suicide attacking and moving on the field (as said above)
- Bizarre Espionage rampage for the AI, perhaps in relation with the above overpower issues, so I cannot play with the option activated (fortunately there is that option)
- Strange combat odds (a real nightmare for me, sincerely...)
- Resource distribution and amounts (I prefer, as an example, the Antmanbrooks .xml)
- Cavalry flanking bonus on cities, specially with defenses (absurd and unrealistic)
- City attack/defense bonuses/maluses for AI and player, seem not to be active for the AI
- Perhaps, does the AI know the location of hidden resources? (really only observed by me once)

These are which I remember at the moment. At least nobody can say to me that I'm not a real hard tester About the irritation, must be due to summer heat (out of my home is 45ºC...) and because I like RI too much.

Thx again

 

[Drakarska]

Actually SR-71, your not the only one seeing this. I've had similar interesting experiences on MON difficulty. Taking a quick peek at the XML shows that the code has some rather.. Odd shall we say? lines to them for difficulty levels.

However, since I've been a loyal RI fan from the beginning, you kind of get used to all the quirks until the RI Gods make it perfect. It'll get there, just gotta be patient.

 

[SR-71]

Actually SR-71, your not the only one seeing this. I've had similar interesting experiences on MON difficulty. Taking a quick peek at the XML shows that the code has some rather.. Odd shall we say? lines to them for difficulty levels.

However, since I've been a loyal RI fan from the beginning, you kind of get used to all the quirks until the RI Gods make it perfect. It'll get there, just gotta be patient.

Thanks for your words. Of course it's very good to know that I'm not the only one observing those issues, and knowing that the team is working on, I'm not concerned about it any more until further development, which I will test of course

And I'm a real fan too (in my case I will say "real fanatic") and compulsive RI player, and also very interested on making my little contribution to this mod Sure we will have many hours of play again

 

[Lenneth]

Last revision modifies the handicaps. Time for the "fanatics" to try again in competing with the AI

Sad, btw, that the RI forum isn't as populated as C2C's as this mod easily surpasses it in quality, imho.