1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Realism Invictus

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by Walter Hawkwood, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. Drakarska

    Drakarska Epic Dadness

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,576
    Location:
    Twilight Zone
    I can't really judge C2C to harshly, as the only system that I can get it to run on is the significant others WIN 8 lappy. From my limited play, I would say it's an interesting mod. Still, my personal preference has always been RI, especially the Earth map scenario. My only gripe would be TT's. But that aspect of Civ has always been an issue... Of course, if the RI Gods have somehow significantly improved TT's, I'd be more than happy to make them an offering of the wife's home made CC Cookies :).
     
  2. cfeyyaz

    cfeyyaz Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    Istanbul
    I play with the Immortal difficulty (but at least a good starting location ;) ), and I don't think AI is playing unfairly. In contrary, I win very lucky battles occasionally. I got beaten by a superpower or a backstabbing neighboor later in the game anyway, but before that point I can beat my other weak neighbours.
     
  3. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,291
    Location:
    London, UK
    A system where resources can be spread as IRL is very much what we want to have one day. For now that doesn't happen, except for crops - those can be "discovered" by later farms.

    In general, I'd like to comment on resource distribution and make some points:

    1. Resource clustering into particular spots is there to encourage more trade between civs.
    2. Stone and marble are intentionally very limited; they are set to spawn in less instances than there are players. They are supposed to be very useful assets that aren't easy to come by.
    3. It might very well be that some other resources are unintentionally rare; I will review the custom resource xml and probably incorporate some changes from it to RI.

    Before recent revision in higher difficulty levels AI had a very large advantage in unit production, among other advantages. We're toning that down except for the highest difficulty levels.

    Still, players should understand that AI on higher difficulty levels is supposed to get unfair advantages. It is what difficulty levels are mostly about - giving bonuses either to players or to AI.

    Indeed, that's why we have multiple difficulty levels. One can choose his own level of comfort. Also, of course, we are constantly trying to improve balance, but it is very much up to players to find the difficulty they are comfortable with.

    We're considering introducing some more difficulty levels, both easier and harder.

    Working to fix that.

    You're supposed to be better at that than AI. ;) Unlike human players, AI actually doesn't know the aid system rules - one of the very few cases where AI isn't aware of some rules and gameplay options in RI. In general we try to avoid such situations, but since there wasn't a single complaint about that over time, we consider AI handling of stack composition to be adequate. Still, a player has the opportunity to create much better balanced stacks with better aid bonuses.

    Most likely due to AI love for spy specialists, should be toned down a lot in nearest revisions.

    As I indicate above, most of resource distribution decisions are intentional. A player shouldn't really be capable of running a juche system where everything needed is inside the civ's territory. Trading for resources is very encouraged.

    Will likely get rid of that.

    This one is very unlikely. While I can't guarantee with 100% level of confidence, it is very likely that you are just falling victim to confirmation bias. When the combat system is working as you expected, a person doesn't seem to remember that (after all, this is a normal occurrence) - but when it behaves unexpectedly, you remember it very well. And since you aren't likely prone to making suicide charges with 10% or less probability of winning, you don't get many chances to get unexpected victories you remember - OTOH, since you often attack with a high chance of success, you are getting much more unexpected defeats. Hopefully I explained it well enough.

    P.S. That doesn't by itself mean that there can't be any bugs in combat calculations - but a proper way to confirm them would be gathering statistical data and it wouldn't likely be visible in a normal game, and it is likely not what you are encountering.

    Let's say that C2C just has a different design philosophy and leave it at that.

    As for TTs, I think we did more to improve them than any other mod. I don't think any other mod has such an array of speed-enhancing improvements as we do. Of course, most of them don't have as much content as we do, so this kinda balances that out. :crazyeye:

    Still, rest assured that we try our best to minimize the strain RI puts on systems in all aspects - starting from optimizing textures and all the way up to very complex coding.

    Well, AI on Immortal IS playing unfairly in a lot of its aspects, just not the combat odds. :)
     
  4. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    8,278
    Location:
    Szeged, Hungary
    The two isn't on the same page
    RI is one of the best mods when it comes to quality, along with Sword of Islam
     
  5. SR-71

    SR-71 Terminator T850 model 101

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    Messages:
    205
    Location:
    Seville, Spain
    When I say "spread" I wanted to refer to "discovery", and I must correct you about, because other resources can be "discovered" later also by mines: gold, iron, coal, gold...ecc I've seen it lots of times, and this feature it's fantastic, so, I'll ask not to delete it (in case you did nothing about, leave it as is please) :cry:

    I understand your points, but I still prefer the other style suggested by Antmanboorks, which it has similar idea of trading and so, limiting them to one continent, but with another IMHO point of view. Of course I thank you for taking it in consideration. :thumbsup:

    I've ever understood this, the problem is when, as I said lot of times, I play on noble difficult and I encounter those exaggerated issues. Should be more appropiate to much higher levels :sad:

    Again the same problem, I 'm used to play on not very difficult levels, but at present this level it's a "false" easy level :D

    Thanks a lot, but perhaps only should be enough with balancing present levels, shouldn't be? ;)

    Thanks again, master :)

    Because i'm not an english native, perhaps I did not explained rightly the issue. I really wanted to say that the AID combined with the very exaggerated amount of troops that the AI stacks makes very difficult any tactic and combat. I didn't want to say that Ai makes unbalanced stacks, the troop distribution is very correct (infantry, cav,ecc) although sometimes, as I refered before, does not use siege weapons properly, though includes them on the stack. The bizarre was the amount, not the composition :scan:

    Thanks and thanks, until then I'll p`lay with espionge option deactivated :D

    I agree completely with you, but the refered custom xml does not make anything like that :p

    Will be great, guys :goodjob:

    Perhaps you could be right, if I try lots of "suicide" attacks I could have some good results :crazyeye: But the "city attack" issues that I refer are completely real, the AI ignores the malus that are applied to player, and ignore defenses. Please review this intensively :scan:

    Erm, what are "TTs"?? :eek:

    The problem is when "noble" seems the same difficult as "immortal", thats what I'm pointing again... :rolleyes:

    Keep on the great work guys :goodjob:
     
  6. Hian the Frog

    Hian the Frog TR Designer and XML

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,133
    Location:
    Near Nancy, FRANCE
    Belive me there's a real difference between Noble and Immortal !
    In one word, as soon as you're playing Emperor or more, your game can quickly become a nightmare as the AI receive bonus whereas you receive malus.

    To conclude on your complains: we know about some bugs, balance problems, etc. Our philosophy remains the same till we have started: listening/reading the feedbacks and comments from the community (very useful and very very important) but making things at our own pace. :p
     
  7. Lenneth

    Lenneth Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2011
    Messages:
    55
    SR-71, I myself was already saying before that the difficulty ladder didn't seem well "scaled", but it was mostly above monarch, imho.
    Noble and monarch, although harder here than on BTS bc of the differences between the games and k-mod code, is definitely beatable most of the time.

    I think that a reasonable (and maybe fun) idea is to start a thread(s) in the RI forum about situations, etc that you think you are having trouble with, kinda in the vein of the strategy and tips BTS threads.
    Seriously, this game deserves threads of that kind much more than the vanilla game which is much easier and straightforward in management at this point in time, imho, than RI.

    The AI definitely does not ignore city defense and it's possible to defeat a big AI army with a much smaller (but with more promotions) army. Also consider that the overcrowd penalty does not matter much if you have a big variety of units in the stack, since all of them will boost one another considerably anyway. I myself don't care about avoiding big stack compositions at the renaissance era and forward as long as those stacks have variety. Many times you really have to overcrowd to prevent the AI from mobbing you. Also, we can use the mobility of recon and mounted units to attack from the stack and get back after.
     
  8. Lenneth

    Lenneth Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2011
    Messages:
    55
    Ups, nevermind.
     
  9. Drakarska

    Drakarska Epic Dadness

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,576
    Location:
    Twilight Zone
    @ SR-71; TT's = Turn Times.. Or if you prefer, how long you have while grabbing a cup of coffee and a donut until your next turn is ready for you to play :D
     
  10. SR-71

    SR-71 Terminator T850 model 101

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    Messages:
    205
    Location:
    Seville, Spain
    Ok! :goodjob: To also conclude myself, I'll say that don't know how is Immortal level, i did not play ever (nor surely will play) because of getting frightened by that "nightmare", but there's one thing that I can completely assure you, which is the base for my posts: present "Noble" level is veeeery much elevated than in previous SVNs, in which sometimes I dare to play on Monarch, and I can guarantee it because I've tried dozens of times those two levels for nearly years (as RI lifetime), and the difficult and "nightmare" has been escalating over each new SVN until become IMHO unbalanced in those last SVNs :scan:

    Thx, and hope I will not complain again about it :p ;)
     
  11. SR-71

    SR-71 Terminator T850 model 101

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    Messages:
    205
    Location:
    Seville, Spain
    THX :goodjob: At least I have absolutely no complaint about TT on RI, is very well optimized, and I use a 32 bit system...
     
  12. Ahnarras

    Ahnarras Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Messages:
    99
    Another strange AI behaviour i spotted numerous time: if a rebel slave appears, the AI will target it with really high priority.
    It's a bit odd to see an attacking unit during wartime, who could pillage something or attack my city, wasting one turn to kill one of my rebel slave (and by doing that, they help me as i don't have to send an unit to kill the slave myself.
     
  13. Propunk

    Propunk Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Messages:
    172
    Location:
    Brazil
    Hi, RI guys!!! All the best for you! Just a little tiny question: I was waiting for this new mod for Christmas 2012. Is there a chance it's gonna be released by Christmas 2013? I know you guys have done so much and it's not fair to ask you for "dates", but still... Your addictive mod has made me ask this, not my personal judgement. Not my fault... not my fault not my fault not my fault not my fault not my fault:D:D:D
     
  14. sami_snow

    sami_snow Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    get the svn and it's new every time you play
     
  15. Hian the Frog

    Hian the Frog TR Designer and XML

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,133
    Location:
    Near Nancy, FRANCE
    Hi,

    We are at that time very busy updating/adding new stuffs:
    - Josh: new pedia, new tags and new codes (for some planned future changes)
    - Walter: XML (Handicap) and art files/buttons
    - Yann: mostly all basic XML (leader, handicap, wonder, etc).
    - Henrique: tests, XML (diplomacy), some codes (interface)
    - Pericles: splashes (Great peoples)

    To be clear, we are very close to make a full (and stable) release but - as usual - we won't give any date.
    Like many players, you should try to use the SVN. You would have the up to date mod and would only have to take care that updating while playing almost make your current game not compatible.

    Yann
     
  16. Antmanbrooks

    Antmanbrooks Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    Messages:
    436
    Location:
    The Cheshire Plain.
    Hi,

    Sorry for the delay in reply. The spread of resources by farms or mines etc isn't changed, so there is always a small percentage chance you might 'discover' potatoes in one of your farms. I'm not sure if it's restricted to the continent they started on though or if you reqire trade with the empire that has potatoes as an example, maybe one of the mod developers can answer this question?

    It's quite easy to amend the file for your own taste. If you search for the file name in google it'll tell you what each line of code is there for, so you can play around with the resources and change if they can appear on multiple continents or how plentiful they appear.
     
  17. Antmanbrooks

    Antmanbrooks Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    Messages:
    436
    Location:
    The Cheshire Plain.
    Some resources are coded to appear in plentiful supply grouped together, wine, gold, silver, gems etc often appear in clumps of 2 or 3. It's normal and is the same in my file. You can change this though via the code in the file I amended.
     
  18. Antmanbrooks

    Antmanbrooks Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    Messages:
    436
    Location:
    The Cheshire Plain.
    This would be great if;

    a) I had enough resources to trade, the AI usually has a good selection of what I have if on the same continent.
    b) The AI actually trades what I need, they usually don't have spares themselves.

    If it's a strategic resource then they don't trade. If it's anything else the AI demands 4 or more resources for corn or wheat. It's never a fair trade, so no serious trading of resources is ever achievable IMO.

    In summary I feel there isn't an even enough spread of resources at present and a lot of the resources just don't appear on the map. Take ivory, fur, crab or whales for example. On a standard map there often isn't more than 2-4 of these on the entire map and they are restricted to one land mass or coast.
     
  19. sami_snow

    sami_snow Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    i finished the quest to build harbors and caravels and chose to get the navigation promotion and didn't get it. did you guys disable it?

    edit: in other news, a general question: when do you guys give up a game? how many points behind, or whatever other metric?
     
  20. SR-71

    SR-71 Terminator T850 model 101

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    Messages:
    205
    Location:
    Seville, Spain
    Hi again! I've started a game with you las SVN 4511, with the Noble difficult again, and unfortunately i''s the same again. Even worse, because the Ai makes enormous and impossible stackings at a very early game, sure it has an stupid boost on production and mainteinance... :mad::mad::mad::mad: Really each SVN i try is worse than previous in that matter :cry:

    I'm going to try the level below the "Warlord", but I must do a comment: about techs in Noble level, the AI progress of AI research is very good, at the exact pace I desire for a challenging game. The problem is completely on the AI production bonus (and sure on mainteinance which allows Ai to create that incongruous and absolutely ridiculous amount of troops).

    So, my fear is that if I play on a lower level, for avoifding those stupid stacks, the AI research could be too slow and easy to beat, which IMHO it's really what makes a game reallyboring, not the fact that the Ai play unfairly with bizarre amounts of troops and only attacking knowing when it's going to have favorable odds and prevailing. :mad:

    Then, I'd suggest you tweaking the levels not in research, which is at a good level, but only in production to avoid those veeeery annoying issues.

    Well, I'll try now the warlord level, hope won't see again one of those exaggerated stacks and will find an appropiate level :(
     

Share This Page