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Realism Invictus

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by Walter Hawkwood, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. Darkphoenix

    Darkphoenix Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Messages:
    198
    Sometimes I hate the UI. Thank you, that explains so much.

    It also shows just how stupidly OP the Austronesians can be in the hands of the player on the world map. :king: Wrong religion? That's okay, we can still be friends!
     
  2. Cykur

    Cykur Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2008
    Messages:
    167
    I played a game as the Austronesians. They start kind of slow with all the jungle around, but without much competition in their neighborhood, I inexorably grew to own the whole western Pacific by the age of gunpowder -- Australia, Japan, and the eastern coast of asia included. Eventually stopped because it became clear no one was going to be able to catch me.
     
  3. Cykur

    Cykur Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2008
    Messages:
    167
    In my current game I just hit Renaissance and since I'm running Serfdom, just got to see my first Renaissance level Revolting Peasant. This thing is tougher than anything I've got by a longshot. I can't even make Arquebusiers yet, not for another 15 turns or so, and even if I could these would be tougher than mine. I also don't have horse because I'm playing the Aztecs in the Americas.

    I knew the next stage of revolts would be rough, but a str 9 unit arquebusier with great defensive bonuses is pretty OP at the cusp of the Renaissance Age, especially considering 80% of my military is still melee. Wish there were a way to at least let me get my own gunpowder units first, and even then these things would be tough to fight.
     
  4. xondrax

    xondrax Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2013
    Messages:
    43
    My solution to that is simple: kamikadze :). Three older units are enough usually. Sometimes first wins and get so much xp, so its worth. And I often dont have enough gold for upgrading all units anyway, so this is way to solve this problem.
     
  5. Cykur

    Cykur Warlord

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    Apr 7, 2008
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    I'm about to resume the game. Yeah, obviously I can kill 1 of them now and again by feeding it cheap units, but it is still unreasonably tough. Even if I had Arquebusiers, it would take 2 to kill it on average. As it stands, my toughest level 5+ units only have about a 12% chance to kill this thing, and my average fodder units have around 1%. I might kill it with 3 units, or it could take 4-5. I am changing out of serfdom because an unlucky string of revolts will really screw me up. I would have to crank out military units non-stop and still suffer a lot of collateral damage.

    Even the str 6 medieval revolting peasants would occasionally kill a superior unit -- I have lost many 90%+ fights, but that is the price of slavery / serfdom so I deal with it. It is just ridiculous to have to fight str 9 arquebusiers with str 6-8 pre-gunpowder units. The revolting units should not out-tech me.
     
  6. xondrax

    xondrax Chieftain

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    Jan 13, 2013
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    43
    Also having fortresses all around helps, they give 20% against barbarians, and having units on hills and forests, so you dont have to go against 50% + 50% bonus against them.
     
  7. Cykur

    Cykur Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2008
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    Yes, I keep the most defensive terrain garrisoned for just this reason. I'm fine with barbarians and revolts in general - I am playing on Emperor. My point was that it is unlikely that slaves or peasants are going to have more technologically advanced weaponry and units than their parent empire.
     
  8. Cykur

    Cykur Warlord

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    Apr 7, 2008
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    On a separate note, I just noticed that my Teocalli pagan temples and slave markets still give a % gold income bonus to city despite being obsolete and running under the wrong civic. Is this a bug?
     
  9. Noddahrassa

    Noddahrassa Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
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    The first time I saw this, I simply gave up and reloaded an older save to change my tech path. Since then I always make sure to enter Renaissance with the Arquebus tech and to have some promoted light horse and gold around. These can be upgraded to strength 9 units, IIRC. With 1 or 2 pacification promos they usually achieve >50% chances against the peasants, depending on the terrain.

    Doing it all without horses probably pretty much s***s. Switching out of servitude is probably the best option then. IMHO renaissance is the era you have to take most care when entering. If you don't plan it properly, you can screw up your game completely.
     
  10. Babri

    Babri Emperor

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2010
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    Pakistan
    Yeah 9 strength slave revolts are extremely annoying & tough to break. Generally I bring a whole stack of armies along for aid bonus & then attack these guys with cavs. I would suggest reducing their strength to 8 & remove/or reduce melee bonus to 25%. Also upgrade them to 11 strength when the parent country researches flintlock musket tech (the one which enables fusiliers).

    Sent from my One V using Tapatalk
     
  11. Babri

    Babri Emperor

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    Not sure if it is a bug or a feature. It can really be abused by a player though. Let's say player builds local bureaucracy under bureaucracy civic for 10% maintenance reduction, then move to another civic.
    Speaking of bureaucracy, I think it is an awesome civic & we could buff nobility a bit so it is actually somewhat competitive to bureaucracy & aristocracy maybe a middle ground between them (in terms of economic & military bonuses).

    Sent from my One V using Tapatalk
     
  12. HannibalBarka

    HannibalBarka We are Free

    Joined:
    May 14, 2003
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    3,954
    Location:
    Paris, France
    I usually don't attack them till they go down on flat land. I surround them with units on tough terrain (and they some time attack me and lose), bombard them when I can, and attack with horse (or anti barb longbow) when they got on flat terrain. They some time pillage, but that is the price to pay for running such an awsome civic ;), oh and the civic increases worker speeed so :D
    I do agreee though that it does not make sense to have revolted peasont more "powerful" than regular armies (unless RI guys wanted to mean number vs strength)
     
  13. Cykur

    Cykur Warlord

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    Yeah, I only had to see one of these to immediately switch to Caste. With 20+ cities playing at extra slow speed, I was going to get pretty messed up trying to wait until I had my own arquebus. Occasionally I get as many as 3 revolts in a turn, so an unlucky string of revolts would have messed me up pretty bad, and I can't replace armies fast enough to justify suiciding them.

    Yes, it makes sense to have revolting slaves / peasants increase in strength incrementally with certain techs. It would take some extra coding though, unless there is a pre-made piece of code somewhere that adds to strength with a tech discovery.

    I don't know if that building actually carries its benefits forward. My pagan temples and slave markets were disabled in every way EXCEPT the bonus % to gold income for the city....kind of like how culture bonuses stay active on an old obsolete building.

    Yeah, if I had known how tough they were and wanted to stay in a slave/servitude civic, I could have built dozens of forts in key locations and put longbow in them. Aztecs have no horse at this stage. Even with the strength 6 revolts, sometimes they get in a defensive spot where they feel threatened and refuse to come down. At least with str 6 you can throw a couple cheap skirmishers at them to soften them up. It just wasn't an option feeding melee units to a str 9 arquebus, so I switched civics. It is like modern day rioters suddenly having battlemechs equipped with particle beams.
     
  14. civman110

    civman110 Immortal

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    I agree.

    I think that these slave rebellions should be enabled once arquebus is researched, not upon entering that era.
     
  15. Propunk

    Propunk Warlord

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    Location:
    Brazil
    Dear RI guys:

    First of all, thank you for your awesome, volunteer work.
    Second: is there a way to alter the victory conditions of the world maps?
    Thank you in advance.
     
  16. pioswa

    pioswa Chieftain

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    I think that revolting peasants are so strong in renaissance because rebels should be a problem trough whole era, and because rebels are upgraded during era change, then they have to be so strong that they do not get to weak after researching flintlock musket.

    If strength of rebels would by dependent on technology a player have, and not by era, then this problem would by solved and it would be more realistic.

    For now, upon entering renaissance i rush for the better cavalry units and i upgrade every cavalry that have pacification promo. During medieval era i always menage to promote enough of my horsemen to deal with the revolting peasants in later era, and maybe i am lucky but i always menage to get horses by renaissance (never played on world map though).
     
  17. civman110

    civman110 Immortal

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    I was reading up on some Celtic Kings and I found a nice picture of Brian Boru if anyone is interested.

     
  18. Babri

    Babri Emperor

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    If strength of rebels can't be changed with specific techs, then we could simply give Renaissance peasants some bonuses against specific units. So that they are fine against late medieval armies (by reducing their strength to 8 & reduce melee bonus), but your fusiliers won't completely crush them as they would get lets say 30% bonus Vs fusiliers. I know it sounds like a cheap workaround but it will still be much better than what we have right now.
     
  19. Shuikkanen

    Shuikkanen Warlord

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    Feb 2, 2012
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    Location:
    Finland
    Well, I'd rather this wouldn't be done at all like this, but if there's no other way, and it is felt necessary, may I suggest that it's instead a malus against certain late medieval units, or a bonus on some late medieval units against the rebels, and keep the strength of the rebel the same. Just because it will seem rather weird, at least to my taste, for a unit to have a singular bonus against later higher-tech units.
     
  20. Ahnarras

    Ahnarras Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
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    Wasn't Renaissance the very era where most of countries using serfdom had to abandonned it, because the revolts started to be too much to manage? As a french, maybe it's just our revolution that make me say that, not sure of how it works in other countries.
    But i'm not mistaking, then it would be perfectly realistic the way it actually works. Being able to keep serfdom in renaissance seems... weird, at least to me.

    I'm speeking for the spirit of the civic. Obviously, if you are looking only to the bonus it give, you could want to keep it.
     

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