Realism Invictus

[H4run]

No you couldn't tell me anything because combat is broken, diplomacy is broken, THE AI is BROKEN! So take your passive agressive attitude and shove it.

that's not objective and fair, it's highly emotionally base unfair judgement. Just because you couldn't handle the battle that does not mean the combat is broken. I able to manage to capture a highly fortified Rome with huge defender in melee, archer and mounted unit using Greece civilization, I did that with equal military technology without any horse support. It took awful amount of effort and time, as it is should be (not simply put your catapult to suicidal mode and bash the hell out of it). Quantity without organizing your troops and proper strategy will not work on this mods, you need to read the description of each unit and use it strategically.

As for diplomacy, enabling vassal state will give you more diplomacy, it will divide nations to factions and AI will think twice to declare war on one and another, it will wait till the right time to strike (like when it is weaken, or when it is get attacked by multiple civilization) it is more realistic that way.

Even though this mod is not perfect, but it is simply the best mod, I simply can't play vanila anymore after knowing this mods, the stack system is awesome, the ability to bombard enemy unit, no more suicidal siege weapon which are dumb down the strategy so badly, no more stupid technology trading, awesome unique unit and building, and very stable mods without crashing you just need to install and play without altering anything, and many more (which can be endless if I spell it one by one). But it is indeed need improvement not because it is not good but it has a potential to become much better.

Not all religions behave equally in terms of heath, economic opportunity, and political will. In RI, Islam has many advantages that other religions do not, such as converting cities by conquest and their Mujahideen are a powerful early unit. I also think (unless I'm mistaken that Islamic Temples have +1 to trade routes as well).

My strategy is highly isolationist in this mod because of my base strategies are science and money. While open border highly advantage my city razing rival, hence building Islamic temple somehow dictate my playing style. IMHO it is either decrease on technology transfer on open border to 20 percent perhaps? and enabling research agreement later on (50-75) or basing technology transfer from open border which amount referencing on current relation (friendly=max, please=high, cautious=moderate, annoyed=low, furious=very low).

However you made a good point regarding Islam spread by conquest.

 

[Routalempi]

IMHO it is either decrease on technology transfer on open border to 20 percent perhaps?

I'm not sure which version of the mod you are playing, but they actually decreased tech transfer bonuses to 30/15% in one of the last SVN.

After playing few games I have to say it feels quite right. Now you can't completely rely your research on open borders like you could do before, which means you have to put more effort in your own scientific output. Also, as a fun side effect research speed on later eras comes a bit down, and that is only a good thing if you ask me.

Good work on the latest SVN! I really like the new unit models and gameplay changes.

 

[H4run]

I'm not sure which version of the mod you are playing, but they actually decreased tech transfer bonuses to 30/15% in one of the last SVN.

After playing few games I have to say it feels quite right. Now you can't completely rely your research on open borders like you could do before, which means you have to put more effort in your own scientific output. Also, as a fun side effect research speed on later eras comes a bit down, and that is only a good thing if you ask me.

Good work on the latest SVN! I really like the new unit models and gameplay changes.

that's great! I currently play two games, hotseat and single player, in my hotseat I check the research bonus of my partner reach like 50 percent for each research that I done. I don't know about the single player I cannot check it, I mostly lead the tech all my research are green not blue.

I don't exactly know which version I'm currently play, I just download the full version from the main page I don't notice any patch or such, and I don't know what is SVN and where can I get it, can anyone help me?

EDIT: Alright I googled about SVN and I went here:

http://www.realism-invictus.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=825

read everything and do exactly that, I hope I did it correctly, now the program downloading huge content.

 

[rkade8583]

Well, Brennus was definitely a person, or rather at least two persons - but very definite at that, and quite historical. In that aspect, Brennus (in particular, "the" Brennus who invaded Greece) is no different from most leaders in RI. As for Boudicca, we didn't keep her for a simple reason of relevance - she was a leader of a rather small tribe and her only claim to fame is an unsuccessful rebellion. If we were desperately out of leaders for Celts, we might use her - but Celtic civilization offers us a lot of good leader opportunities.

Thanks for the rationale, Walter. The wife and I disagree but understand (she really likes Boudicca and I'm just not a Brennus guy because we don't know much about him/them (although your traits are about what I'd expect, heh.)

 

[tchristensen]

I have been playing this mod for over a year and really enjoy it. It is both tactically and strategically challenging -- almost too much so. I often get so mad at the crazy rule set. It seems the barbarians are too weak played normally, but insane with Raging -- although I prefer the latter.

I simply enjoy the flavor of all the different civilizations, both with unique units but also the models for distinctive units.

I have modded the mod considerably over the year, and I play on a direct IP with several other friends. I have added several new units, civics, improvements, and changed some rules. I have enabled all civilizations and its wild to play the North American Indians or the Bantu King.

The Bantu King cannot create settlers but start with 10 axemen. They roam around and eventually find barbarian cities or other AI and capture cities, starting a flash explosion of conquest.

American Indians also have a completely different playstyle, with a -90% science but a 100% distance from palace, inexpensive units, and a deep cultural presence.

The best mod I have ever played.

 

[DisposableHero]

Hello! I've been trying to get the SVN but its taking a hell of a long time to download - like, 10+ hours so far, and this seems to be mostly due to the art assets. Is this normal?

Edit: Never mind, it just finished

 

[tchristensen]

Hello! I've been trying to get the SVN but its taking a hell of a long time to download - like, 10+ hours so far, and this seems to be mostly due to the art assets. Is this normal?

I don't believe it should take that long, of course I don't know your bandwidth. I think there is a problem.

 

[Hian the Frog]

Hello! I've been trying to get the SVN but its taking a hell of a long time to download - like, 10+ hours so far, and this seems to be mostly due to the art assets. Is this normal?

Edit: Never mind, it just finished

Yes, it is. Everything is unpacked so it's very long to download. Meanwhile, ten hours is really really long.

To be clear, it's also long to load when you want to play. Same problem: everything is unpacked.

To finish, by using a SVN you will be able to play with an up to date game as long as you update it of course.

Good game !

 

[DisposableHero]

Well, this definitely has not worked. After loading the mod (and yes, it took about 20 mins), I'm just taken to the vanilla Civ4 loading screen, although on the 'load a mod' option it says Realism is checked. Suspect I've missed a step somewhere?

Should my file directory be Beyond the Sword\Mods\Realism [used for SVN checkout]? In this directory, I have:

.svn
realism
website
realism.ini
realism.ini.bak

 

[Darkphoenix]

Well, this definitely has not worked. After loading the mod (and yes, it took about 20 mins), I'm just taken to the vanilla Civ4 loading screen, although on the 'load a mod' option it says Realism is checked. Suspect I've missed a step somewhere?

Should my file directory be Beyond the Sword\Mods\Realism [used for SVN checkout]? In this directory, I have:

.svn
realism
website
realism.ini
realism.ini.bak

Hmmm, mine looks like this:



If your main civ4\beyond the sword\Mods\Realism folder does not have those, it would seem something went wrong with the download, but it would be odd it took so long if things weren't downloading. When you were downloading, did you got a long list of things showing up as downloading?

EDIT: Yeah, if you saw art assets being downloaded, you should at least see Assets\Art if nothing else. @.@

EDIT2: Including some troubleshooting of things that have caused issues for me in the past:

2. Are you a normally non-english speaker, and does your folder path include any "special characters" (including your user name)?

3. Is your install inside program files? So many problems arise from running things that are installed inside Program Files. Even when you have admin privileges. Your PC's security goes wonky in there.

EDIT3: What is the "realism" you have listed after .svn. Is that a folder? If so, maybe you just accidentally put things one level too deep like mods\realism\realism?



EDIT4: HAHAHA! Got it! You looked at the last post in the above thread, and made your SVN checkout "https://svn.code.sf.net/p/civ4mods/code" rather than "https://svn.code.sf.net/p/civ4mods/code/realism/bts/trunk/mod". (I believe that post was to reference the fact that the server had changed, and the first bit of the url had changed.)

No wonder everything took forever, I think that's every version of the mod: vanilla, warlords AND BTS!

Cutting and pasting the BTS version (see above first path) down into the mods folder should let you play.

I'm not sure how you can easily fix the future SVN updating without redownloading everything from scratch off the top of my head, maybe just once you have cut that folder and pasted it down into the lower level to fix it, you can right click the Realism folder, and make a new checkout with the correct code? I think SVN will see the files in there and reversion them.

One of the modmakers may be more knowledgeable about how the SVN works.

 

[DisposableHero]

Haha that's almost certainly it! So I should copy the bts folder into mods/realism (where the .svn folder is located)?

 

[burebeesta]

after trying the new version of tech diffusion (30%-15%) I got to the conclusion it is a factor that, paradoxically, it doesnt balance the game, on the contrary. Here's why:
[I played a very huge map, on Immortal, with a random civ - proved to be Zulu]
1) in the opening phase I beeline piramids and then hinduism: I get one GE, have him build Temple of Artemis, and I already have GP flowing...But to do all that, I neglected the other techs, like despotism and the like...but with the help of tech diffusion, open borders help me get this techs quick - since AI is always researching them - and most of the times I end up in a very advantageous position. Without tech diffusion, it takes much more to research those techs which are important in the early phases of the game.
2) The isolationist leaders have no chance whatsoever of getting things going: they become vassals at best, most of the times they are just whipped out.
3) In the late phases of the game, when 2 or 3 civs have 1 or 2 or more vassals already, the open borders agreement between them is gonna put more distance between them and the civs without vassals, and so you get runaway civs, attacking at will, still having decent commerce from trade.
4) In this game - which I will try to upload - I kind of ran away with it, having around 10k research per turn (late modern era) and I am on the verge of getting the A-bomb. Having open borders with the second best civ doesnt give me not nearly as much commerce bonus from trade to balance the 30% research bonus he is getting. So best choice for me, close the borders. In my opinion, it doesnt make sense to have a larger bonus for research from open borders then the commerce you get from trade, because its useless to have open borders if your rivals are going to benefit much more than you.

My solution is the following, and I hope we could discuss this:
1) I think tech diffusion should not be connected to open borders. It makes sense that if you have land borders with a nation, some tech should diffuse, even if you dont have open borders. This way I give a chance to isolationist leaders, which are right sitting ducks.
2) Connect tech diffusion with spying points. Set some level of espionage for the tech diffusion. In fact, you already have this levels. Have, lets say, 4 or 5 different levels, with 5% bonus per level, a max of 25% lets say. It doesnt really make sense that a civ that is on the other side of the globe I havent even discovered yet gives me 30% bonus because I have some open borders agreement... This way, the AI, which is investing a lot in espionage, might just end up on the wining side...
3) The only underdeveloped aspect of this game is the espionage and the limited possibilities of spies, the lack of promotions, etc.Why not have spy infiltrate in a foreign city, in order for you to get that 5% bonus, for example? The mission would consume the spy, and each turn to chance of being discovered should grow. Why not have spies assigned to your city, in order to defend from foreign infiltrators. Have a small sign, like the religion symbol, to indicate that you have a spy in your city, or in a foreign city. This way you wont have annoying units just sitting around in your city, mixing with the units, and you would now very quickly if one of your towns if defended or not.
These are just some ideas, but the espionage missions, as you very well now, played a huge role in the last two World Wars, and ever since. They might be the most important military asset, right now. Why not give the spy a more realistic look and more purpose?
Cheers,

 

[DisposableHero]

Got it working, but I'm having a problem with the Terra map script: it just generates one big landmass. No seas or bodies of ocean of any kind.

Edit: Err... and Earth2...

 

[Darkphoenix]

Got it working, but I'm having a problem with the Terra map script: it just generates one big landmass. No seas or bodies of ocean of any kind.

Edit: Err... and Earth2...

Confirm I have same thing, it's not just a bad download on your part. Not all map scripts work with RI, the added terrain and features probably mess them up.

The one I use is PerfectMongoose.

The Huge World Map scenario is fun, often the mod gets is balanced around it, but I will warn you that many PCs have slow down issues with it eventually, especially with memory.

I've also read that CommandingHeights makes for a well balanced game as well.

 

[Routalempi]

after trying the new version of tech diffusion (30%-15%) I got to the conclusion it is a factor that, paradoxically, it doesnt balance the game, on the contrary. Here's why:
[I played a very huge map, on Immortal, with a random civ - proved to be Zulu]

1) in the opening phase I beeline piramids and then hinduism: I get one GE, have him build Temple of Artemis, and I already have GP flowing...But to do all that, I neglected the other techs, like despotism and the like...but with the help of tech diffusion, open borders help me get this techs quick - since AI is always researching them - and most of the times I end up in a very advantageous position. Without tech diffusion, it takes much more to research those techs which are important in the early phases of the game.
2) The isolationist leaders have no chance whatsoever of getting things going: they become vassals at best, most of the times they are just whipped out.
3) In the late phases of the game, when 2 or 3 civs have 1 or 2 or more vassals already, the open borders agreement between them is gonna put more distance between them and the civs without vassals, and so you get runaway civs, attacking at will, still having decent commerce from trade.
4) Having open borders with the second best civ doesnt give me not nearly as much commerce bonus from trade to balance the 30% research bonus he is getting. So best choice for me, close the borders. In my opinion, it doesnt make sense to have a larger bonus for research from open borders then the commerce you get from trade, because its useless to have open borders if your rivals are going to benefit much more than you.

I have to disagree with you.

1. If you always choose one specific tactic, it probably is overpowered like this one. (I know it is, it was my most used starting strategy before I downloaded the latest SVN.) Now, with smaller tech diffusion you have to think more carefully about beelining to something.

2. This problem was even worse with 50/25% tech diffusion. Playing isolationist is actually easier now.

3. Same as #2. Also, I often play with vassals turned off because AI:s tend to be vassalized too easily, resulting in runaway civs like you described above. The problem is not in the tech diffusion, it is in the behavior of AI.

4. Once again, #2. Bear in mind they made the procents SMALLER than before.


By the way, is Hungary going to have an unique improvement soon? I would really like to play as them more, but without an UI they are obviously not as good as the others. If there are any hungarian RI players on this forum: what kind of improvement would you add to represent your country?

 

[OrlindaT]

The amount of penalty is somewhat less in cities, and the total number of units that can be stacked without penalty can be raised by researching technologies.

someone can tell me which technologies decreases the penalty by stack?

 

[H4run]

someone can tell me which technologies decreases the penalty by stack?

any technology that resulting +1 on logistic.

 

[OrlindaT]

any technology that resulting +1 on logistic.

thanks, but what the difference between rural logistics and urban logistics?

 

[Shuikkanen]

thanks, but what the difference between rural logistics and urban logistics?

Urban logistics apply when the stack is inside a city or a fort
Rural = everywhere else

 

[OrlindaT]

Urban logistics apply when the stack is inside a city or a fort
Rural = everywhere else

I got it.

thanks