1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Realism Invictus

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by Walter Hawkwood, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. Shuikkanen

    Shuikkanen Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Messages:
    259
    Location:
    Finland
    2) & 3) I really like these ideas. Especially the latter. Let's say they had some probability of either disbanding or turning.
    4) "same bonus defending a stone fortress and a freshly settled pair of huts" -- If by stone fortress you mean a fortification, it already grants a fort aid bonus which works like the aid units give.
    5) "Traveler's report: Mayan civilization wanders aimlessly into a jungle, gets lost and perishes." I think it's been suggested before and the answer was that they can't trust the AI not to commit suicide with something like this.
    9) I think this would be a micromanagement nightmare. Remember how it was with slash and burn farms before, back when they degraded? Maintaining two was bothersome. Three was frustrating. And with four I gave up. This would be a hundred times that. A city just grew in population? Okay, time to find an idle worker and build an improvement. Epidemic reduces city population? Crap, the extra improvement is degrading again. Want to switch between a great food source and a great production source regularly (something the AI actually does for you fairly okay depending on what you're producing). Wake up the workers again.
     
  2. sazhdapec

    sazhdapec Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2015
    Messages:
    156
    4) No, I mean huge city with stone walls, a castle and lots of buildings.
    5) Yeah, I know. That's why I implore to improve AI. A lot of basic civ4 mechanics are great but some of them not. Moving armies through jungles with 50% defence and no movement penalty in enemy lands blows my mind.
    9) I agree that there will be more micromanagement. But I'm having a workers' nightmare already. I measured: most of my playing time I spend deciding what to do with workers: main things are improved, key roads are built and any extra task does nothing. So I start chopping everything, buildings roads everywhere etc. The only thing to decide is where the road is more important: on this wild forest or on that bare hill.
    Btw, main problems with degrading slash and burn farms were keeping track of their working times and the necessity of using military units.
     
  3. Shuikkanen

    Shuikkanen Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Messages:
    259
    Location:
    Finland
    Regarding workers, once everything has been improved, and main thoroughfares built, I keep a stack of emergency workers idling in my capital, while I have the rest automated building a road network, so eventually everything is covered in roads and the AI moves those to idle in the capital. You can automate workers without fear as long as you have the "leave old improvements" option checked, plus I also have them leave forests and jungles alone.

    If a random event destroys a resource improvement, the network automation still sends the stack to fix it, even though they don't normally build anything but roads, they also connect resources.

    Having AI do the management for you after key improvs are built isn't 100% efficient but I very much doubt that it ever matters and it definitely cuts down playing time.

    EDIT: Oh and the maintenace cost for workers versus everything else should be so small as to not matter, so there's no shame in idling them when there's nothing relevant to do.
     
  4. ruff_hi

    ruff_hi Live 4ever! Or die trying

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2005
    Messages:
    9,089
    Location:
    an Aussie in Boston
    I'm looking for version 3.13 (playing a pbem game) ... any suggestions where I can find this?

    Edit: Found it. Funny to see my name in the 'thanks' (for BUG).
     
  5. SR-71

    SR-71 Terminator T850 model 101

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    Messages:
    205
    Location:
    Seville, Spain
    BUG: Gold Panning Sites cannot be pillaged/replaced. Is this intentional? If it isn't so, it's really a bug... :scan:
     
  6. Shuikkanen

    Shuikkanen Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Messages:
    259
    Location:
    Finland
    I think it's intentional. They start good, then degrade, until they become a town (useful again). If you were able to pillage them once they've degraded only once, it would be abusable.
     
  7. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,294
    Location:
    London, UK
    Hey everyone, I'm back from vacation, so updates should resume.

    No, we don't have anyone who is actively working on AI, unfortunately.

    All right, I'll change the name.

    Come to think of it, a woodland combat specialist should make short work of an untrained unit defending in woodlands. I think we'll add attack bonus to the Woodland promos as well, so that the end result is that fully promoted unit is at an advantage in the woods even when attacking.

    Fixed.

    AI over-whipping might be an issue. It may be so that AI undervalues its population, as in vanilla game it is much easier to grow. But I see no easy way of fixing this currently, except for removing a rather fundamental aspect of the game (whipping) altogether. This is a really drastic measure that I'm not sure I'm comfortable with.

    Thanks, I'll consider these additions. Have to keep maps balanced, so we can't possibly add everything.

    I'd suggest trying to do this through steam. If you already have Civ 4 but not the steam version, you can just feed steam your product key.

    Yeah, the cultural stuff needs to be constantly rebalanced to keep up with the other realities of the game.

    Yeah, come to think of it, it's really rather powerful. I guess it makes sense to nerf it somewhat, just as we did with The Great Library.

    Interesting. I'll investigate that - it wasn't removed deliberately, I'll tell you that much.

    Thanks, again I'll consider the maps. We mostly focus on historical resource distributions.

    It's not "magic". It's the unwillingness of farm owners to invest into new agricultural tools and techniques when using slave labor, so the total agricultural yields are falling as large slave-owning holdings displace small free landowners. It was one of the economic mechanisms that is considered to have led to the downfall of Roman empire.

    Just as serfdom runs into modernization problems when farming mechanization starts, as serfs have no means to purchase the expensive farming equipment. In this case, Russia in XIX century can be seen as a prime example of serfdom hindering the development.

    Yeah, we didn't update the map script to include them. I'll see to that. Berbers too now.

    Thanks, will fix.

    I do believe that historically razing a city meant slaughtering most of its inhabitants. Whether this merits a settler is debatable; I think that even when there were refugees, they usually fled to other major cities, not founded a new one.

    There's already "require complete kills" option to ensure they don't vanish.

    No immediate way of doing this that I know of. And no, they don't get the same bonus - they get the same bonus from being in a city plus a defense bonus from the fortress. I think this one already works precisely as intended. :)

    AI, AI, AI... :(

    Not sure. Might be hardcoded in exe file.

    Would put a big strain on AI civs - again, that's something AI wouldn't understand.

    I think it's supposed that those slaves died while being whipped.

    As others pointed out, too much micromanagement for my taste.

    It is coming. Not right now, but it is coming.

     
  8. SR-71

    SR-71 Terminator T850 model 101

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    Messages:
    205
    Location:
    Seville, Spain
    Thanks! I didn't think about it that way. It's very logical ;)
     
  9. sazhdapec

    sazhdapec Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2015
    Messages:
    156
    What about gameplay? Settlers are quite expensive, a lot of cities are being razed throughout the game and in the end there are too few left with vast areas not worked by any city. I agree, getting a settler after losing a city is strange but if this was an evacuation decision we would end with AI problem again. Btw, razing a city under slavery civic should produce slave units, shouldn't it?

    First thing that came to mind: a winner civ would suffer war weariness because some enemy scout was trapped in the middle of nowhere with no way of ending a "war".

    In my opinion archers were great in defending cities because they could shoot down enemies without jeopardizing themselves using defensive structures. With no defensive structures how can they get bonuses?

    OK, but how is it other than that?
     
  10. Shuikkanen

    Shuikkanen Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Messages:
    259
    Location:
    Finland
    The new great general button looks awesome.

    I wonder if requirements for some of the quests could be brought down a bit. On a huge map, the War Chariots demands I build 13 chariots before Classical era. Not only is it an extremely short time, but I dread to think how much the 13th chariot would cost under current unit model. The requirements increase with map size, but you can no longer balloon to half a dozen cities before classical without crippling yourself, regardless of map size.

    Also, the obsoletetechs are rather random atm. The correct minimal set for advancing to the classical era is by my reckoning: Tolls and Taxes, Alphabet, Philosophy, Horseback Riding, Shipbuilding, Mining, Metal Casting, City Planning.

    The quests continue being somewhat buggy. Horse Whispering grants you nothing if you pick the horse archers option and you can't normally build that unit. It hasn't come up for me yet with a civ like Mongols who have horse archers, but I presume they would receive it just fine. Maybe change to cataphracts instead if this can't be fixed?

    Also, I fulfilled the reqs for Best Defense quest in my last game but its completion didn't trigger. Found the reason. The obsoletetechs for triggering the quest are correct (Metallurgy and Flintlock) Musket) but the obsoletetechs for fulfilling it are still Railroad, Breech-loaded Rifle and Market Relation. (The last one being the one I had researched.) Once I researched Metallurgy it informed I had failed, as it should.

    Last time I got Greed, it didn't fulfill itself at all, even though I captured the city and the resource with no-one else gaining control of them in-between. But figuring out what's wrong with that one is beyond me.
     
  11. salty mud

    salty mud Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2006
    Messages:
    4,927
    Location:
    die Schweiz
    Greetings,

    I am trying to install the mod. I tell the installer to put the mod in the "Beyond the Sword" folder as instructed. However, I get an error message saying "Extract: error writing to file GreatPeople.FPK." What does this mean and how do I rectify it?

    Regards
     
  12. sungchiahao

    sungchiahao Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Messages:
    48
    It looks like there is a lot of new stuff. Is the new version out somewhere? I am only seeing the 3.3 download link.
     
  13. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,294
    Location:
    London, UK
    The point about slaves is actually quite brilliant. I will keep this one in mind and see if we can implement that - after all, that's how the majority of slaves would have been gotten in that era.

    As I said, it's already a game option, in vanilla Civ 4 even. I guess it should work all right if they put it there.

    Rooftops. A city has lots of vantage points even after the walls have been breached. Ancient/medieval urban combat is a very messy business, but even an unarmed citizen sitting on the roof hurling thatches down could hurt an armored soldier, as Roman military history shows.

    Other than that it is also hard to implement technically, especially with any kind of AI awareness.

    Thanks, spent much more time on GP buttons than I anticipated. This far, only workers and settlers use vanilla buttons (I think).

    I guess you're right. We have generally not been touching quests from vanilla BtS, especially not in a systematic manner. It might be a good idea to do it.

    It can, and will. While not all civs have horse archers, all civs have some kind of light cavalry.

    Thanks, what we really need is to go through all the quests in a systematic manner. It would be great if someone like you could do it and provide more suggestions! :goodjob:

    My first guess is that you don't have enough HDD space where you're trying to install it. Alternatively, you should check if you have write permission to that location (start installer as admin?).

    There is a development (SVN) version that you can check out at any time for the latest development snapshot. Many people prefer to use it, rather than our infrequent official releases. http://www.realism-invictus.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=825
     
  14. salty mud

    salty mud Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2006
    Messages:
    4,927
    Location:
    die Schweiz
    Waiter Hawkwood,

    I have over 500GB free on my HDD and I have tried running the installer as an administrator already with no luck. Thanks for your suggestions however. Could it be something else?

    Regards
     
  15. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    8,280
    Location:
    Szeged, Hungary
    Maybe you have a corrupted download?
     
  16. salty mud

    salty mud Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2006
    Messages:
    4,927
    Location:
    die Schweiz
    I've downloaded both the full and light versions, and ran them both as administrator. I still get the error. I'm not at all sure what's happening.

    Regards
     
  17. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    8,280
    Location:
    Szeged, Hungary
    I vaguely remember that I read that on some systems the steam version of Civ IV has issues with a couple mods.
    There are 2 supposedly functional Beyond the Sword\Mods folders in that version (one under Users and one under the normal installation place), but not everything works from both places, especially if the given User had an accented User name for Windows and/or a non Latin-1 character set for the OS.

    If neither is true for you, I think you should try the SVN version, as Walter said above.
     
  18. salty mud

    salty mud Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2006
    Messages:
    4,927
    Location:
    die Schweiz
    I tried this and it finally worked. Thank you very much. There's a huge startup time though. I almost put it down to the game crashing but it finally loaded after 5 minutes or so.

    Regards
     
  19. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    8,280
    Location:
    Szeged, Hungary
    Great! I avoid Steam so couldn't give you and any real instructions, glad you could figure it out from those few memories I remembered about this :)
    Have fun playing!
     
  20. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,294
    Location:
    London, UK
    If you don't want to update regularly, you can pack the assets so it loads much faster: http://www.realism-invictus.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=885

    (though I don't do that myself; I just use the load time to make some tea)
     

Share This Page