Realism Invictus

[Shuikkanen]

Conqueror is a great trait, but really dependent upon horses for the first half of the game, and they often can't be found at all. This leaves its only benefit the free promo siege units get (until armored units roll around) and while it's not an insignificant bonus by any means, I'm hoping something could be done to buff the trait a bit. At the very least it should get a discount on siege workshops. It already gets one for armament industry.

 

[Quoth the Raven]

The world map huge scenario is very good. Is there somewhere I can download the map by itself so I can put the civilizations I want on it? Thanks.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Thanks to everyone who took their time to vote! The final tally is, out of 17 people who voted, 9-8 in favor of changing France, and 10-7 against changing Germany. So it is done. Notably, I found a better tank for MBT role for France, as ARL44 was also a bit too archaic for that role - but ARL44 didn't go to waste either, replacing the last foreign-made tank in French roster, advanced medium tank. I feel the new setup without foreign equipment reflects well both the very interesting designs of French arms industry in XX century, and the fact that France always stood rather aloof when it came to NATO. As for Germany, we'll be having accurate post-war FRG instead of fantasy surviving Reich. Had I capacity to introduce alternative unit sets for a given civ (based on leaders, for instance), I think it would be cool to have DDR using Soviet stuff as well. Ah well.

About 6,000 Panther tanks were produced, I would say that is enough to qualify at least having the Panther as another unique unit for Germany. About 1,347 Tiger I tanks were built, and about 492 Tiger II tanks were built. The Tiger II was fielded specifically in heavy tank divisions though, and they were not usually given piecemeal to the infantry. Maybe have the Tiger II as a unique unit that only 2 of can be built, to represent the superiority of late war German armor designs such as the Tiger I and II, Jagdpanther, Jagdtiger, and Ferdinand. They were not built in large numbers, but they certainty had an impact on the morale of the allies that far exceed their numbers. Sorry for all the suggestions, but I am a WWII history fan and cannot help myself.

There were over 5000 KV-1 built by USSR, and they also had a massive impact in terms of morale, being virtually invulnerable to contemporary German guns. Yet they are also not included. Again, heavy tanks were simply not formed into Civ IV-sized units, ever. If anything, a detachment of heavy tanks should be a promo that could be given to a medium tank unit - but unfortunately that would quickly become anachronistic, when these units get upgraded to MBT while keeping their heavy tank detachments. A heavy tank unit would work better for a WW2-focused scenario, especially if it has a more tactical scale (say, focused on Europe instead of world). Even then, such a scenario would only need a handful of those.

I agree that I could reasonably use Panther as advanced medium tank for Germany, but in this case it's just my call not to - I wanted Germany to have its most mass-produced tank instead. So yes, this one choice is a subjective one, but one that I stand by and not without its own merit.

There were actually heavy tanks battalion in both Germany and USSR. And also civ 4 units aren't division size, else units like feudal knights or archer or machine gun wouldn't be there as they never figthed without other supporting units

By WW2 times they certainly are at least division size. Germany had almost 100 divisions by the time of Poland invasion; using any smaller scale would necessitate a ridiculous amount of units. And I agree that it is probably some kind of sliding scale regarding unit strength; for my own appraisal purposes I always though of it to be roughly 500-1000 people at the game start, rising to a division (10000-20000) by the time of WW1.

Conqueror is a great trait, but really dependent upon horses for the first half of the game, and they often can't be found at all. This leaves its only benefit the free promo siege units get (until armored units roll around) and while it's not an insignificant bonus by any means, I'm hoping something could be done to buff the trait a bit. At the very least it should get a discount on siege workshops. It already gets one for armament industry.

Yeah, good suggestion. I was actually planning for something a bit more fun for the trait, but that depends on our coders.

The world map huge scenario is very good. Is there somewhere I can download the map by itself so I can put the civilizations I want on it? Thanks.

There's a tool that allows you to clear any scenario. I think it should do what you want: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/wbcleaner.270443/#post-6686732

 

[LordBaal]

Too bad for the germans, they got shafted in my opinion.

 

[swingcatz]

First of all, thanks for the mod.
I got 64bit windows10 pc and it's i7-6700 3.4GHz/ gtx 1060 6GB and 16GB ram..
i guess the system seems ok to run the mod but when i played mod with gigant maps,
it shows memory allocation failure and... goes off even in 3000 b.c something...
i patched 3.19 already.
1024x768 works ok with the system but it won't let me play with gigantic map...
looking for help..

 

[cdroms]

this might be a dumb question but where can i see the list of updates for each new svn version? thanks!

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

First of all, thanks for the mod.
I got 64bit windows10 pc and it's i7-6700 3.4GHz/ gtx 1060 6GB and 16GB ram..
i guess the system seems ok to run the mod but when i played mod with gigant maps,
it shows memory allocation failure and... goes off even in 3000 b.c something...
i patched 3.19 already.
1024x768 works ok with the system but it won't let me play with gigantic map...
looking for help..

Are you trying to play SVN or release? With your configuration, it should be able to handle it. There are some things you might try:

1) If you are playing a release version, you may try unpacking your assets. Loading will then take around 20 minutes, but I suspect that packed assets might be the cause of MAFs people started experiencing with the latest release version.
2) In any case, release or SVN, you could try out the special anti-MAF toggle, that can be found in-game in Options under Graphics and is called Graphics Paging. It is off by default (because it can cause some instability itself as well), but try turning that on.

this might be a dumb question but where can i see the list of updates for each new svn version? thanks!

https://sourceforge.net/p/civ4mods/code/commit_browser

One could also subscribe to RI SVN newsletter as I did, to get each new update's change log as an email.

 

[cfeyyaz]

Hi, several weeks ago I decided to make my own version of realism invictus by editing the xml files. I kept track of my changes, so I will write them down. If the developers like one or two ideas I've implemented, they may consider to adapt some of those changes. I'd be greatly happy.

First of all, I used the SVN 4997 as base. Then I made the following changes:

Firstly: I didn't like that by the medieval ages all jungles are cleared and all tiles have a road and an improvement. So, I took the following precautions:
Worker Cost 25% up for every worker
Slaves don't die
Chance of capturing a slave is halved, but they give 60 not 30.
Slave to Worker probability when changing civic from slavery to another one: It was 50%. Now it is 20%
Slave Work rate: Not 50% but 25% of an ordinary worker.
Worker Build rate is halved

Then I wanted that some strong wonders go obsolete earlier. I think I will make more changes in the future:
Great Library: Paper
Lighthouse: Rudder
Parthenon: Theology
Angkor Wat: Enlightenment, btw it now becomes available with Church architecture
Artemis: Theology
Sankore: Scientific Experiment
Gondeshapur:University
Also the Great Library will be giving free scientists now, not a science bonus. Why? Because the Great Library is my favorite wonder, and I want it to be strong, that's why

Now I played with the food a bit:
Peasant servitude tech doesn't give +1 to Farm, Aryk Farm, Communal Farm, Pancrasti Field,Kemet Farm, Timar now.
Also: South China Farm: No longer +1 from Botany; Folwark initially +1, not +2
Also: Mechanize Farm: initially +2, not +3
In other words: All farms give 1 less food than normal peasant servitude onwards.
Watermill: I just threw in a +1 bonus to make it more attractive.
City center gives only 2 now instead of 4. But granary and smokehouse each give +1. So you may want to build them earlier.

Then I made the following changes for the civics:
Republic: No longer +1 happiness for large cities, but +1 happiness from city square
Despotism: -1 happiness from city square. That means, despotism is not bad, but if you want to boost your great people generation... Well, then you will have some penalty. You may want to adapt monarchy in the future. Maybe Enlightened Absolutism will give +1 happiness to City Squares to negate this effect.
Free Commoners: +1 from Town, not +2.
Working Class: +1 from Town, +1 from Village
Caste System: +1 to Craftsmen

I tried to balance economy civics a bit by making the following changes:
Guilds: No Gold bonus, high upkeep, +1 to industrial plantation
Merchant Princes: Low upkeep, no -25% distance upkeep, no extra trade routes, +1 to merchant, New National Wonder: Merchant Prince
The national wonder gives bonus to your caravan houses and harbors. That means, merchant princes is an effective civic, only if you are ready to invest in your trading network.
Free Market: +1 trade routes, not +2

I think the unlimited specialist from civics is way too strong and not very logical. So:
Theocracy: No unlimited priests, sacerdotal gives 3 priest slots
Free Market: No unlimited merchants
Free Religion: No unlimited scientists, no culture bonus, +10% to compansate the missing monasteries

Then I looked at the specialists:
I made great specialists weaker to encourage player to use their great people for starting golden age, building great works, establishing trae route etc. So: Great Artist and Great Spy doesn't give 3+12 but 1+8; Great Merchant and Great Scientist don't give 1+6 but 1+4 resources.
Artist and great artist get no bonus from theatre and get only +1 from opera and cinema each.
Merchant Republic: +3 Merchant slots
Trade Fair: +1 Merchant slot
Trading Post: +1 Merchant slot
Siege Workshop: +1 Engineer slot

Then I made miscellaneous changes:
Gems are revealed with metal lore again.
Coffee: Revealed with Ritual, and gives only +1
Slash and Burn Farm: +1, +1 with Trade, +1 with River
The starting location was boosted with various resources. Now it is boosted only by food resorces, i.e. Wheat etc, Cow etc, Fish, Clam, Crab, Sugar, Lemon and Banana.
+50% production rate for legislator leaders: Local Beraucracy
Central Bureaucracy gives +1 to Local Bureaucracy, +1 to Mayors Office to boost early cities in your colonial empire.
Great Works (Science) give +25% (+50% for classical ones), but they get obsolete
Leonardo's workshop gives a free engineer now.
I didn't like the militia to be the best unit at the start against all types of barbarians: So: Archery tech no longer has a prerequisite, and Barbarian Warrior has +35% against melee. I really liked that change and I definitely recommend it because it forces you to create a well balanced archer-militia army to cope with the barbarians. Previously, I only built militia, never even bothered to reseach Archery, because militia was strong against everything.
Animals that get +50% bonus from jungles now get +100%. So the jungles are very dangerous now. Now it is not very easy to explore the world and to contact other civilizations.

And finally I changed the construction cost of ALL buildings and wonders. I will not write down all the changes I made, but the changes can be generalized as follows:
The more sophisticated the building is, the more it costs. For example, I increased the cost of aqueducts and theatres by a lot.
The earlier buildings cost slightly more, the later (industrial) buildings cost a lot less. The grocery store has the same cost with the school for instance.

My whole thing is under construction so there will be many more changes in the future. Things that I will probably implement in the future are:
Balancing some of the unique. Nerfing the trappers lodge and mahout camp at the start of the game.
At some point in the industrial age, Towns will start giving +1
Two new wonders: Silk Road: Gives bonus commerce to caravan houses. Marco Polo's Embassy: +1 to merchants.
Making Protectionism and Monasticism more interesting.
Watermill gets bonus from hydroelectricity, not electricity.
Buffing Mausoleum of Mousollos
Three Gorges Dam will not be giving electricity to whole continent (too strong, too illogical), but it will give production bonus to river tiles.
Free Market will gvie higher epidemic chance and unhealthiness.
Changing the effects of more Great Wonders
Resources like iron, copper etc. will also appear on savanna, forest and jungle tiles


Mostly, I didn't tested the changes that I've implemented yet. Probably I sacrificed too much of gameplay for the sake of realism. Nevertheless, the changes that I mentioned above might be some food for thought for the developers and for the community.

 

[The Francis]

When is the new version will be released?v?

 

[Shuikkanen]

Obviously I can't test these, but I can offer some opinions.

Then I wanted that some strong wonders go obsolete earlier. I think I will make more changes in the future:
Angkor Wat: Enlightenment, btw it now becomes available with Church architecture

Angkor Wat's function is to give a production bonus via priests over a long time period. If it's gonna be around only for a little while, it's pretty much a waste of time to build. Maybe consider buffing it, or reducing the production cost significantly?

City center gives only 2 now instead of 4. But granary and smokehouse each give +1. So you may want to build them earlier.

Out of all the changes here, this seems the most dangerous to me even with the compensating changes. City square bonus is the most effective way of equalizing starting locations thanks to resource allocation being what it is. Combined with the slowed down worker rate, this could mean that some lucky civs might get a serious head start while others linger. I don't think the granary and smokehouse compensate enough. The city that grows to 3 quickly and naturally will be able to build them much quicker than the one that's struggling to get to pop 2. You also changed how starting locations are boosted, which is good, but I'm still skeptical whether it will work on all map scripts well enough.

Siege Workshop: +1 Engineer slot

Heh, this is clever and seems right somehow. I've almost never built siege workshops, so they could do with some love.

I didn't like the militia to be the best unit at the start against all types of barbarians: So: Archery tech no longer has a prerequisite, and Barbarian Warrior has +35% against melee. I really liked that change and I definitely recommend it because it forces you to create a well balanced archer-militia army to cope with the barbarians. Previously, I only built militia, never even bothered to reseach Archery, because militia was strong against everything.

I agree. Spam some militia, position them cleverly enough, and the barb problem becomes a gg farm instead of a problem. It should be shaken up a bit.

Watermill gets bonus from hydroelectricity, not electricity.

I guess you could argue that hydroelectricity allows you to build hydroelectric dams, where as just hooking up a watermill to produce electricity isn't complicated and can be done with electricity.

 

[cfeyyaz]

Obviously I can't test these, but I can offer some opinions.


Angkor Wat's function is to give a production bonus via priests over a long time period. If it's gonna be around only for a little while, it's pretty much a waste of time to build. Maybe consider buffing it, or reducing the production cost significantly?

I will try balancing the great wonders in the future. While I agree that Angkor Wat needs a buff or a reduction in production cost, it is still better than the Fortress Alamut .

Out of all the changes here, this seems the most dangerous to me even with the compensating changes. City square bonus is the most effective way of equalizing starting locations thanks to resource allocation being what it is. Combined with the slowed down worker rate, this could mean that some lucky civs might get a serious head start while others linger. I don't think the granary and smokehouse compensate enough. The city that grows to 3 quickly and naturally will be able to build them much quicker than the one that's struggling to get to pop 2. You also changed how starting locations are boosted, which is good, but I'm still skeptical whether it will work on all map scripts well enough.

I also greatly disliked that change, because it leads to a very slow and boring start. You must build a pasture or a farm in order to get your city grow beyond the population of 1 (which was intended). So I build a worker in 30 turns, the worker then needs another 30 turns to build a farm. Meanwhile I have to build a lot of archers and militia to keep my farm safe from barbarians which means I can't build a storyteller circle or my beloved granaries or smokehouses...

Heh, this is clever and seems right somehow. I've almost never built siege workshops, so they could do with some love.

Thank you . The first engineers were military engineers, so I hope this change will simulate it somewhat. I also almost never built siege workshop, but AI seems to like it a lot, so this change is also intended to help the AI a bit.

I guess you could argue that hydroelectricity allows you to build hydroelectric dams, where as just hooking up a watermill to produce electricity isn't complicated and can be done with electricity.

I agree, thank you

 

[[Y]]

Firstly: I didn't like that by the medieval ages all jungles are cleared and all tiles have a road and an improvement. So, I took the following precautions:
Worker Cost 25% up for every worker
Slaves don't die
Chance of capturing a slave is halved, but they give 60 not 30.
Slave to Worker probability when changing civic from slavery to another one: It was 50%. Now it is 20%
Slave Work rate: Not 50% but 25% of an ordinary worker.
Worker Build rate is halved

I see the problem you're trying to solve, but I don't think the solution is proper. I imagine making the game slower would be like taking out the frustrations on the player. Did you consider any alternatives?

Now I played with the food a bit:
Peasant servitude tech doesn't give +1 to Farm, Aryk Farm, Communal Farm, Pancrasti Field,Kemet Farm, Timar now.
Also: South China Farm: No longer +1 from Botany; Folwark initially +1, not +2
Also: Mechanize Farm: initially +2, not +3
In other words: All farms give 1 less food than normal peasant servitude onwards.
Watermill: I just threw in a +1 bonus to make it more attractive.
City center gives only 2 now instead of 4. But granary and smokehouse each give +1. So you may want to build them earlier.

I like all of these changes, except for the city center. That would make the game far too slow.

Then I looked at the specialists:
I made great specialists weaker to encourage player to use their great people for starting golden age, building great works, establishing trae route etc. So: Great Artist and Great Spy doesn't give 3+12 but 1+8; Great Merchant and Great Scientist don't give 1+6 but 1+4 resources.
Artist and great artist get no bonus from theatre and get only +1 from opera and cinema each.

I like this change. I find that I never use them for golden ages, and I usually just settle great scientists instead of using them for a science wonder.

Gems are revealed with metal lore again.

Good choice.

Coffee: Revealed with Ritual, and gives only +1

Not sure the gold buff is necessary, but I like giving Ritual and other dead-end techs more significance.

Slash and Burn Farm: +1, +1 with Trade, +1 with River

Probably not a good idea. It runs the risk of slash and burn farms becoming better than some resource tiles. They should be a supportive boost, but not the backbone of a culture's economy (at least in their current implementation).

The starting location was boosted with various resources. Now it is boosted only by food resorces, i.e. Wheat etc, Cow etc, Fish, Clam, Crab, Sugar, Lemon and Banana.

Only by food resources? Adjusting the ratio would be useful, but being boosted by only food resources is an overkill.

Great Works (Science) give +25% (+50% for classical ones), but they get obsolete

That's a big bonus. Do they go obsolete as soon as an era switch, or with a tech?

I didn't like the militia to be the best unit at the start against all types of barbarians: So: Archery tech no longer has a prerequisite, and Barbarian Warrior has +35% against melee. I really liked that change and I definitely recommend it because it forces you to create a well balanced archer-militia army to cope with the barbarians. Previously, I only built militia, never even bothered to reseach Archery, because militia was strong against everything.

This has been bothering me for ages. But I don't like "fixing" it by boosting archery and giving barbs a bonus against melee (this makes the player's Warriors even more useless!). And one aspect of the Militia that this doesn't touch is that they essentially obsolete Chariots before Chariots are even available. Why make a Chariot army when every culture already has a counter unit?

I think it would be better to reduce Militia to 2 Strength, +50% against archery (so a match at best), and +100% vs charge cavalry. In this way, they can still be a practical defense, but without the offensive capabilities that let them dominate the early game. Then the cultures with super-militias (Egypt, Carthage, etc) can simply have 3 Str militias, setting them to the current Militia strength instead of putting them on par with Spearmen, and removing from them their capacity for overrunning cities via sheer brutality.

Animals that get +50% bonus from jungles now get +100%. So the jungles are very dangerous now. Now it is not very easy to explore the world and to contact other civilizations.

I like it. Same should be done with Desert animals, I think (bumping Cheetahs up to +150% instead of +100%).

 

[cfeyyaz]

I see the problem you're trying to solve, but I don't think the solution is proper. I imagine making the game slower would be like taking out the frustrations on the player. Did you consider any alternatives?

Hmm, maybe just like slaves are dying, we could get workers "retired" with some probability upon completing the construction of an improvement.

Not sure the gold buff is necessary, but I like giving Ritual and other dead-end techs more significance.

The first time coffee ever mentioned in a written source is in 8th century. Therefore I thought that mankind should have discovered coffee way after 4000 BC, therefore the change. It is a food nerf btw, not a commerce buff.

Probably not a good idea. It runs the risk of slash and burn farms becoming better than some resource tiles. They should be a supportive boost, but not the backbone of a culture's economy (at least in their current implementation).

I should have formulated this better on the post above. To make it clear: I have overwritten the present bonuses with the bonuses that are mentioned above. That means, at its prime, slash and burn farm on a riverside jungle gives 2 and 2 only. +1 if you have the mohenjo daro bath, yet still the tile is mediocre. But if you have bananas etc. on the jungle tile, then it is actually pretty nice. Maybe we could turn +1 to +1 at river tiles. The reason being, that you can transport timber much easier by using the river.

Only by food resources? Adjusting the ratio would be useful, but being boosted by only food resources is an overkill.

Is there an easy way to adjust that ratio?

That's a big bonus. Do they go obsolete as soon as an era switch, or with a tech?

Meanwhile, I changed everything to +25% bonus. The older science works are discontinued as the new science works come (as before), and they get obsolete with following techs:
Classical: Algebra and Geometry
Medieval: Astronomy
Renaissance: Patent Rights
Industrial(Early):Electricity
Industrial(Late) and Modern don't get obsolete.
As you can see, the Science Works get obsolete with very important, significant techs. That way, I am intending to force the player (i.e. myself ) to make difficult decisions: "Should I research astronomy to get observatories quickly, or should I wait to get maximum out of my medieval science works?"

This has been bothering me for ages. But I don't like "fixing" it by boosting archery and giving barbs a bonus against melee (this makes the player's Warriors even more useless!). And one aspect of the Militia that this doesn't touch is that they essentially obsolete Chariots before Chariots are even available. Why make a Chariot army when every culture already has a counter unit?

I think it would be better to reduce Militia to 2 Strength, +50% against archery (so a match at best), and +100% vs charge cavalry. In this way, they can still be a practical defense, but without the offensive capabilities that let them dominate the early game. Then the cultures with super-militias (Egypt, Carthage, etc) can simply have 3 Str militias, setting them to the current Militia strength instead of putting them on par with Spearmen, and removing from them their capacity for overrunning cities via sheer brutality.

As far as I know, history didn't record any significant battle until 2500 BC or so. Therefore, it is intended that those primitive warriors to be useless, and you want a semi organized militia-archer army, if you are going to face military action. Militia vs chariot: Well, this can easily be fixed by giving militia a +75% vs mounted units instead of +100%. I wouldn't give militia 2 str just like a primitive caveman-ish warrior as you have suggested. Also don't forget that chariot attacks with collateral damage, can withdraw from the battle, and they give mobilitiy aid. Supermilitia: Indeed they are strong, but they are also quite expensive.

 

[The Francis]

Any one have any ideas when the new version comes out????????????????

 

[Shuikkanen]

@The Francis: Every version that I can remember has been announced the moment it is released, not a day before. But there was talk that they couldn't make it for christmas a month or two ago, so it's likely just a matter of weeks now.

 

[[Y]]

Hmm, maybe just like slaves are dying, we could get workers "retired" with some probability upon completing the construction of an improvement

I think that's still missing the problem. Let's look at it historically: Why was the world not as developed as it was until more modern times?

1. Humans weren't as widespread
2. Some places couldn't be developed.
3. Some places were developed, but were eroded after abandonment.
4. Some places were developed, but required upgrades over time.
5. Some places were worked, but not developed.

RI, and CIV for that matter, fails to address these points effectively. Here are my thoughts for addressing them:

1. Stricter rules on where cities can be founded. For example, I'm an advocate on forcing cities to be founded next to fresh water tiles until some tech allows settling of other areas. This will help the map stay emptier for a longer period, which I think will offer a vastly improved game play experience.
Another option here is to limit the amount of improvements a city can have by it's total citizens. Max 3 improvements for every 2 citizens? Actually, nevermind, I really don't like the max improvements idea.

2. This is currently present; can't meaningfully build on desert, jungles, forests, etc unless an improvement is specifically meant to be built there.

3. CIV has always failed on this front. In reality, the world is littered with human artifacts and developments in ruins, or buried by time, etc. But in the game, when something is built, it's there for good. One potential fix could be improvements becoming obsolete due to a lack of maintenance. Or something like that.

4. This has the potential to be implemented, but would require a lot of (XML) work.

5. This is missing from the game. I've made a suggestion in the past, but that would require an immense amount of work to implement (scripting and AI adjustments). I will keep thinking about alternatives.

I should have formulated this better on the post above. To make it clear: I have overwritten the present bonuses with the bonuses that are mentioned above. That means, at its prime, slash and burn farm on a riverside jungle gives 2 and 2 only. +1 if you have the mohenjo daro bath, yet still the tile is mediocre. But if you have bananas etc. on the jungle tile, then it is actually pretty nice. Maybe we could turn +1 to +1 at river tiles. The reason being, that you can transport timber much easier by using the river.

Ahh, okay. That is much more balanced than I realized, then.

Is there an easy way to adjust that ratio?

Until your post, I didn't know we could adjust the starting resources at all.

Meanwhile, I changed everything to +25% bonus. The older science works are discontinued as the new science works come (as before), and they get obsolete with following techs:
Classical: Algebra and Geometry
Medieval: Astronomy
Renaissance: Patent Rights
Industrial(Early):Electricity
Industrial(Late) and Modern don't get obsolete.

As you can see, the Science Works get obsolete with very important, significant techs. That way, I am intending to force the player (i.e. myself ) to make difficult decisions: "Should I research astronomy to get observatories quickly, or should I wait to get maximum out of my medieval science works?"

This bonus feels too big, then. It's easy enough for civilizations to get a huge advantage over others already, I don't think we need more of that. But I do like the idea of giving huge bonuses if the work goes obsolete as soon as you hit the next era. It will give civs a reason to chase the science tech early each era, and makes the boosts short, but sweet.

As far as I know, history didn't record any significant battle until 2500 BC or so. Therefore, it is intended that those primitive warriors to be useless, and you want a semi organized militia-archer army, if you are going to face military action.

So you're saying all non-warrior military techs should have Writing as a prerequisite, then?

Battles weren't recorded, but battles were still waged.

 

[cdroms]

really pumped for the new version - is this the one that's supposed to include RevDCM? or was that just an idea someone had?

 

[The Francis]

I got a question. Few posts back people were taking about playing American ?? How?
There was not American in RI right ?

 

[Shuikkanen]

@The Francis: Uh, yes there is. And always has been. If you mean the World Maps, those don't have America or Celts, since their areas are occupied by other civs. It is possible to play world map with the Americans however. First, start a game as anyone, then go to worldbuilder, game options, add civilization. Once you've added Americans either give them a settler or place a city on the suitable point in the map (Philadelphia, if you choose Washington as leader, IIRC). Then save the map (not the game) and you can then play the worldbuildersave the same way as you would the huge map, and it offers the choice of Americans as a starting civ. I've made my own versions of the world map with the Americans, Celts (in Ireland) and playable Ukraine, Finland and Halych-Volhynia.

 

[The Francis]

@The Francis: Uh, yes there is. And always has been. If you mean the World Maps, those don't have America or Celts, since their areas are occupied by other civs. It is possible to play world map with the Americans however. First, start a game as anyone, then go to worldbuilder, game options, add civilization. Once you've added Americans either give them a settler or place a city on the suitable point in the map (Philadelphia, if you choose Washington as leader, IIRC). Then save the map (not the game) and you can then play the worldbuildersave the same way as you would the huge map, and it offers the choice of Americans as a starting civ. I've made my own versions of the world map with the Americans, Celts (in Ireland) and playable Ukraine, Finland and Halych-Volhynia.

When you say start game as everyone , you mean start RI , then go to world builder?