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Realism Invictus

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by Walter Hawkwood, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. cfeyyaz

    cfeyyaz Chieftain

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    The :gold: from establishing trade depends on many factors like the size of the city, whether it has buildings that enhance trade etc. For the early stages of the game where you have 2 :commerce: from an ordinary trade route, your :gold: income from trade will be 1500 in my version. I think it is 1150 :gold: currently in the original realism invictus (and vanilla civ etc), so it is only slightly lower.

    By the way, I also think that the health malus is a bit too cruel. I for instance had a start, where my city was almost totally surrounded by sea (so no trees) and I had no riverside. As a result I had 4:yuck: or so right from the beginning. As you can imagine, it was almost an impossible task to get the city grow beyond population 1.

    Ozymandius Upgrade is great by the way :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2017
  2. Shuikkanen

    Shuikkanen Chieftain

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    Now that Potter's workshops are a requirement for Glassworks, they shouldn't be discontinued by Glassblowing and Porcelain. You might lock yourself out of Glassworks completely (and hence from Notre Dame) this way by accident.

    Alternatively they shouldn't be a requirement for anything, but be obsoleted rather than discontinued by Glassblowing and Porcelain.

    EDIT: Just got the Harbormaster quest at a point when I was already building Sloops instead of Caravels, and had upgraded my existing ships. The quest should count Sloops as well.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
  3. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    OK, first, another announcement. I've finally figured how to fix the inappropriately large selection areas of certain units, and now I am able to fix all of those - but I'm very reluctant to actually go through all the units we have testing their selection radius. So please report all such units you encounter, and they will be fixed (Russian rifleman already is, as he was my faithful lab rat through the process of figuring that out).

    Well, I don't know - in many cases I find myself raising quite a lot of gold from pillaging at war. The key is to go for certain improvements that provide more (such as towns) and promote the pillager units accordingly. We may raise the total yields a bit, but it doesn't feel too underpowered to me as it is now, when you know what to do.

    On more research scaling - we have to tread carefully here and not cross the line where the player actually starts feeling punished for making progress. i don't want to make having a consistent tech lead impossible in our mod - just harder to maintain and not so overwhelming.

    As others mentioned it, giving up cities is both a nice strategy of you that shows an ability to think outside the box, and has a very natural drawback of damaging the city. In general, it should be easier to defend than to attack, and I feel this is true in most cases.

    Well, I have some other thoughts on Nomadism, as I agree it's far from ideal right now. Rest assured it is going to change.

    Again, I'm not sure what the problem is. If you find yourself in no position to start early wars, don't.

    You need to tweak all the worker entries in CIV4UnitInfos.xml (and we have lots of them, because each civ needs a personal one for their NIs).

    No need for an apology, I just wanted you (and everyone else) to better understand my decision-making process. And as I said, if I were naming the mod now, I'd steer clear of the word "realism". :lol:

    Just try to remember that ultimately, people play for fun. The idea of what fun is can be very different for different people too, so I absolutely don't mind people having ideas that disagree with my own.

    What you're saying is generally true of most 4X games. Production is probably the most important thing there is (research can be too, but insufficient research can in most cases be compensated by having higher production). What I want to avoid though are the purely mathematical exploits like when wasting your production on an unfinished wonder gives you enough gold to buy more production that it was initially. While I understand most players won't get ideas such as this, I need to constantly think about this kind of cheesy strategies. And that's why most conversion ratios stay relatively high. I remember an episode many years ago when I suddenly noticed AI replacing all of its improvements with workshops (back when workshop was still an improvement) at certain point. At first I thought it was broken, but then I looked into it, and saw that with a certain trait combo, workshop would get much more powerful than any other improvement. An AI found an exploit and was cheesing the living soul out of it! I actually felt quite ashamed that day for failing to notice that before.

    Anyway, raised it a bit, though not quite as high.

    OK, I'll think about it. You make good points.

    Fixed in the previous update.

    Tried to solve this one in Ozymandias by giving those more AI weight. Didn't actually test and see if AI likes them now though.

    Did exactly that.

    Yeah, this actually highlights the inherent silliness of having scripted civs on a random map. It means we approach them with a very deterministic mind set, trusting them to develop into a very particular culture regardless of outside factors. But, having my previous lengthy rant in mind, that's probably a necessary sacrifice for having relatable civs at all, so I kind of roll with it. A more realistic approach would be civs that are fully dynamically defined by the way their history unfolds, but that would both require a rewrite of most core mechanics from the ground up and potentially make the resulting civs much less relatable, since they would no longer be Greeks or Mayas we can picture in our minds.

    Yeah, I guess so. But I don't really have a ready solution for that. One thing I'm contemplating is the fact that pillaging doesn't currently affect War Weariness at all, while historically it was one of the main factors. Another is the fact that while pillager gains gold from pillage, it basically comes from nowhere. What if you lost the amount of gold the pillager gets?

    I'm not adding any more leader traits (and new leaders are rather unlikely too).

    Aztecs have nothing to do with jungles. Aztec civilization existed on rather fertile central Mexical plains, and the jungles to the south were more or less the domain of Mayans (whose civilization by that time has mostly collapsed, but various tribes remained). Austronesians did not actually try reclaiming jungles - most of their empires inhabited a thin coast line and rarely extended deep into the island/continent. Anyway, I hear you. I am actually getting more inclined to just make jungle a better terrain in general. It covers far too much of a map to have such a negative effect.

    I don't really see that as a bad thing. A difficulty level too hard? One could always switch to a lower one. On everything past Noble, the game got harder for human players - but is it really an issue to fix when you have so many levels to choose from?

    That said, I see a different problem with the new system - it makes the game even more vulnerable to good/bad starting spots for the first city. And that is something I intend to fix.

    I think one has quite a lot of time for building Potters before Glassblowing is researched so I don't see this as a big issue.

    Added Sloops for Harbormaster.
     
  4. cdroms

    cdroms Chieftain

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    just wanted to point out that a relatively easy fix for this (I believe some other mods already include this) would be to ensure that civs only spawn in environments that match their historical surroundings - that way, you can roleplay like, yea these people resemble our historical Greek civilization because they developed in a rocky island/coast area - but then again, coding this is probably more work than it's worth. I have been thinking of coding this for months but am always too lazy and not good enough with python...
     
  5. [Y]

    [Y] Chieftain

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    I do that as well, but it doesn't feel like it ever pays for the maintenance costs with sending an army across the border. I might break even, but it never provides that "I plundered and returned a rich man" feel. But that might be working as intended.

    It would take some testing, but could work. My worry is that many civs are bankrupt to begin with, so it might have no effect... And worse, that the AI will not know to compensate for it, and it will simply become an easy way to abuse the AI.

    :thumbsup:

    Well, yes. Civ doesn't have a single axis of difficulty, it has dozens (if not hundreds). I move up a difficulty rank when I feel that I've become comfortable with most of the axes. Usually I need a long while to adapt to the new difficulty, but there's a very specific sense about doing... As in, it's very visible when it is a matter of "I need to learn to manage my resources better" and when it's a matter of "something is flawed". At current, the biggest problem is that an unhealthy start means you need to spend 38-60 odd turns just making a worker. In the meantime, the AIs start with a worker, and can start being productive as soon as they research appropriate techs. That's not a situation from which the player will recover. In my own settings, I removed the AI's starting worker to balance things out, but the game is still very much determined by the quality of starting tiles.

    Precisely.


    On another note, I'm taking a hiatus from computer games, so it will be a while before I check in again. Thanks again for all the hard work, and especially to Walter for the time he takes to respond to all posts. It is very much appreciated.
     
  6. Shuikkanen

    Shuikkanen Chieftain

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    I've been thinking about how big an impact early traditions and doctrines have on one's power standing, especially in the early games. Imperialistic and protective leaders are pretty much guaranteed to get a Great General quickly, often two, while schemers usually don't get their first until they've waged a major war for a while. I think this might be driving the AI to make poor decisions regarding warfare in the early game, as they are too confident of their strength. I've certainly noticed some imperialistic leaders with a power ratio of 1.3 or greater attack me early with a rather pitiful stack of troops. Once I get my own tradition, their military strength is suddenly equal. Maybe the military asset value of traditions should be lowered a bit.
     
  7. Sathar

    Sathar Chieftain

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    I'm having an issue with the latest SVN where spies cannot enter (some) enemy capitals. Is something blocking them? This is in the early game against Hitler's Germamy, with whom I'm at war, and possibly the Greeks or Hungarians (peace/open boders, though not sure about them).
     
  8. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    Well, the "relatively easy fix" sounds very complicated to me. I can't code complicated stuff for the life of me, so I will defer a more substantial answer to AbsintheRed.

    Money can go into negative. Also, I think this is a rather easy thing for AI to understand - money trouble is money trouble, whether it comes from being plundered or from a negative event. AI doesn't need to compensate for that loss specifically, just for money problems in general.

    Well, AI advantages from difficulty level come in two basic flavors: either AI gets to do something better (as in flat research or money bonus) or AI gets a better start (as in additional units, techs etc.). There isn't much else when it comes to regulating difficulty. You either have a harder time starting than AI, or it gets fixed handouts throughout the entire game. I actually feel that the first approach (not to say they are mutually exclusive, as they coexist most of the time) is inherently more satisfying, as you get to catch up eventually if you play well. As an interesting aside note, your difficulty level actually determines your starting spot too - there is an order in which the map generators assign starting spots to civs, and the higher your difficulty, the further you're pushed down this queue.

    Yeah, I know this one; I actually always thought of it in reverse - on higher difficulties, AI starts with extra units, so it has a power advantage over player from the start. And high power ratings of doctrines and traditions are a way to compensate for this imbalance. 2:4 are a much worse ratio than (2+5):(4+5).

    Yeah, that's a side effect of spy change. Now two spies of different civs can't occupy the same spot - they likely just have their own spy (or maybe some other lucky neighbor's) stationed there. I am not even sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing, as it also allows a player to more reliably spy-proof their cities.
     
  9. pioswa

    pioswa Chieftain

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    So all i need to do is station a spy in every city and i'm completely spy-proof? There is no way, my enemy will plant a spy in my cities? That cant be a good thing, it seams to easy.
     
  10. Sathar

    Sathar Chieftain

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    For what it's worth, the spy restriction only seems to be enforced when you are at war with the other spies' owner. I'm not sure if that is a good or bad thing. On the one hand, it makes wartime espionage much harder (and defense much easier), but on the other with the AIs' tendency to spam units, for all I know there could be a dozen spies in every city by midgame.
     
  11. Noddahrassa

    Noddahrassa Chieftain

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    I have also remarked a strange spy-related event, though in the 3.3 release and not the SVN version.

    I'm playing the Zulus on the huge Earth map, and have founded a few cities in South America. At the same time I'm in a war with Egypt and have conquered some city of them in Central Africa. Now I get a report that unrest has been fomented in this conquered city by a Tupi spy.

    How did this guy even get there? I'm positively sure that the Tupis are nowhere near achieving trans-ocean travel. Can spies hitch a ride in foreign ships? Or can unrest be fomented without having a spy in the city in question?
     
  12. Shuikkanen

    Shuikkanen Chieftain

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    I think it might be a random event (that's from vanilla civ) where if a city of a civilization you have met is unhappy and "spies posted near that city" are ready to escalate things even further if you spend money. If you choose the do nothing option, one improvement is destroyed, spending money to destroy more improvements runs the risk of having your "spy" spotted. It doesn't have anything to do with actual spy units posted anywhere, only conditions are that you have contact, and a city is unhappy. It's a bit silly that it doesn't take into account ocean travel, but what can you do.

    You were on the receiving end of this event is my guess.
     
  13. Pepo

    Pepo Chieftain

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    Would it be possible to tied up unit maintenance & cost with total population of an empire? I really dislike increasing marginal cost from both a personal perspective and a gaming perspective without another variable that also adjust them. However, by linking then to population, there is a limit on Unit spam and also doesn't need to led to the ridiculous situation where a battleship is cheaper to build than an tank, as all the cost are modified by the same variable. I may also add that it could make warfare even more interesting as not only production but population is taken into account
     
  14. [Y]

    [Y] Chieftain

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    This might vary with difficulty... On higher difficulties, where the AI gets nice bonuses vs barbarians, this actually leads to the AI getting more doctrines than the player. Not to mention the side effect of a how an AI civ with several doctrines will keep waging war against the doctrine-less AIs... (and how those AIs are often unprepared for it)

    Also, Schemer is currently broken. It's advertised at "-40% great general emergence", but since GG points are apparently rounded down, it effectively means you never get GG points from 1-xp battles. Which is most, almost all, defensive battles. In effect, this is much, much more than a 40% penalty.
     
  15. HannibalBarka

    HannibalBarka We are Free

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    I noticed in my current SVN game that World Wonders can be destroyed when you conquer a city, is that intended (was it already the case?) ?
    I quite honestly don't like it :-(
     
  16. The Francis

    The Francis Chieftain

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    i have a question:
    how do i change the winning condition in crusades mode, i want to change it to one condition :domination.
    ?? can i do that and how???
    also how far is the new version to be released??
     
  17. sazhdapec

    sazhdapec Chieftain

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    Go to mod folder then Private Maps. Open RI Crusades file with a notepad. There you can delete the line ForceControl=FORCECONTROL_VICTORIES or delete all types of victories except domination.
     
  18. Nicopathe

    Nicopathe Chieftain

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    Hi folks,
    There is no text attached to the latest SVN revision 5052. What is the content of this update ?
    Thanks.
     
  19. Shuikkanen

    Shuikkanen Chieftain

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    GazProm produces two natural gas, yet requires gas plant to build, which requires gas... Is this intentional for some reason or just an oversight?
     
  20. OneFootInThe...

    OneFootInThe... Chieftain

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    A question which must have been answered many times, but if anyone could point me to the answer itself? :)

    It appears to me that in Win7 I was able to play for longer before hitting the memory wall, but as this was a loooong time ago, I might have done some Civ specific memory adjustment which made it better. Moved to Win10 in the meantime and the game is definitely crashing earlier (medieval, around crucible steel) on a giant map so...

    Any specific settings in Windows10 to allocate CivIV more memory to avoid memory related crashes? (or just a link to where this is likely already discussed in detail? )
     

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