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Realism Invictus

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by Walter Hawkwood, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. Jayman1000

    Jayman1000 Chieftain

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  2. Shuikkanen

    Shuikkanen Chieftain

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    There are new versions with new stuff added literally almost every week. They just happen to be SVN versions with unpacked art assets.
     
  3. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    Hmm... Did the latest update fix those? Hopefully it did, even though I don't have any ideas on why the thing I did matterd, and even more so why it mattered selectively.

    So that the primitives' territory remains unimproved. Major civs capturing their cities won't be able to make use of their improvements for long anyway, as those will disappear. The quality of AI management here is of rather small concern to me, as the hunter-gatherer destiny on the World Map is to be conquered eventually anyway. I guess I could take away their ability to improve terrain altogether, but this gives them at least something to do.

    Yeah, I guess I'll update it. To something not too powerful. :)

    I don't like temporary food. This basically means that a city will likely starve later, and it definitely means more micromanagement, since one has to keep in mind that a tile bonus is going to expire.

    Fixed bonuses promote horizontal expansion. They basically mean that each city you found is guaranteed to provide at least that. Horizontal expansion around the first techs is something I don't feel like promoting. But yeah, rest assured that I don't like how it currently is as well, and I'm trying to think of a more integrated use for this building.

    Well, yeah. Actually, there's an interesting thought. Why not remove the culture from it? Gives other culture-providing buildings a chance to shine, while it still remains useful and becomes even more focused.

    Yeah, I guess it makes sense.

    And of course when nerfing the starting spot I then keep getting players advocating giving a civ X resource Y because it's there IRL... Truth be said, it works this way: I run lots of hands-off tests and see if I am satisfied or not with overall performance of the civ. If I am satisfied, I rarely touch it. If not, then it's time for a buff or a nerf. As of right now, the only civ in my opinion that seriously needs a buff is Mayans, mostly because they have to survive with aggressive Aztecs at their doorstep. Maybe Germans too, but their main problem is being attacked from all sides and not enough places to expand, which is a function of simple geography, so I don't really know how to give them more staying power.

    I could swear I remembered fixing them... Well, I'll fix them in the next revision.

    Well, Paris having a harbor doesn't sit well with me. I understand that a coastal start is a kind of buff, but... As for Chinese, I'm actually considering moving their capital further inland, because it isn't Beijing (except for Mao, but he isn't the leader on World Maps). North China should be more land-focused anyway.

    I'm not sure what exactly is more optimal in their new locations.

    Yeah, I guess you're right about this one. Though it might just give that space to Armenia as well, but it definitely provides Israel less opportunity for early military expansion.

    Well, in this case I can see your justification, but them being where they are actually serves a different purpose - that city ensures no barbarian city spawns on nearby Sakhalin island. If it is moved as you suggest, I think that will become a possibility. In many cases barbarian (and minor civ) cities are where they are to discourage additional barbarian city spawning.

    I don't have a feeling that all places on the World Map should be good for founding cities. There are some that are rather bad, and intentionally so. Actually, South Africa already cheats a bit, since it has gems without jungle, accessible very early on. But generally, I don't want big cities there - with all those shinies, I don't want to see Zulus as a technological powerhouse.

    I don't understand your point about Judea. As for Arabs, OK.

    Portugal isn't designed to expand. Israel and Netherlands too, but they get lucky in this much more often. Of the three, Portugal actually functions closest to what was intended.

    I think it would put unnecessary pressure on Egypt.

    Well, Qatar IRL is on the intended tile. :)

    No, one. What is most puzzling for me is that you use the same resolution as myself. I was prepared to admit that, for example, a different aspect ratio for some players could be a source of errors, but I really don't have an idea now. Anyway, even without having an idea, I've attempted a fix. Do they work in the latest revision?

    I always suggested people to play something other than the huge world map, since it requires far too much from poor Civ 4 engine. Anyway, you can try since we kind of implemented the same fix - when you start getting MAFs, try turning on Graphical Paging in options (it is off by default, since it isn't good for overall stability).

    Nope, we didn't release a new version last year. I think it was a technical fix to something in the installer. We haven't had a major release for one and a half years.[/QUOTE]
     
  4. Jayman1000

    Jayman1000 Chieftain

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    Thank you for answering, Walter Hawkwood! :) I should go with the SVN then I guess :)
     
  5. DisposableHero

    DisposableHero Chieftain

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    So this mod seems to have moved in quite a bit since the last big release. Could I get a summary of the major changes that are in the SVN? Think this would be really useful to returning players.

    Take it the Revolutions module isn't in yet. Anything else to help curb the runaway AI effect?
     
  6. Shuikkanen

    Shuikkanen Chieftain

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    @DisposableHero: I wish I could remember the previous stable version well enough to answer that. :)

    I think the two most important changes, which incidentally curb runaway civs, are the increased unit costs per units build and increase in necessary research to discover a tech per cities built.

    The first one has each unit assigned a specific role or two (ie. ranged support, mounted, breakthrough... etc.), and the building (and upgrade) cost of each unit goes up for each existing unit in that role. The special National units are exempt from this, and levy/irregular types of units have a lower cost increase. It helps curb stacks of doom, and ridiculously large AI armies. By far the most important positive change is that game crashes less often because of memory issues due to huge number of units. Cons include ridiculous upgrade costs leading to more obsoleted units hanging around, and units with multiple roles, such as heavy cavalry, are prohibitively expensive to build more than a few of (unless you disband your chariots).

    The second one simply adds the cost of research for each city you have. It's a bit tricky to get the new expansion balance right, but with experience I can say this change works. Expand too quickly and your research slows down to a crawl. Meanwhile isolated starts can become tech leaders on their own and so the tech transfer rate from open borders was increased to compensate.
     
  7. DisposableHero

    DisposableHero Chieftain

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    Cheers.

    Has there been any changes to the map scripts? I always struggle to find one that creates interesting geography (ie isn't a big old blob), but's also balanced (doesn't leave civs stranded on their own) and "realistic" (has a unsettled new world).
     
  8. sazhdapec

    sazhdapec Chieftain

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    How about a rather radical idea: slash and burn farm just removes a forest and provides :food: like chopping?

    Don't forget to make it cheaper. BTW, does this mean that a school will lose its culture bonus too?

    Another problem with Germans is that they tend to fight right from the beginning of the game while other civs just settle on uninhabited lands.

    These shifts allow founding cities on the X:60 Y:57, X:65 Y:54 tiles with minimum city overlaps and unused tiles.

    Actually in one of my games as Japanese a barb city kept appearing on the Sakhalin island. And in the place I didn't like. Unfortunately I don't remember the fate of Ulchs then. Is it possible to put a barb city on X:113 Y:70 or at least a barbarian Tribal Fort?

    It's just I don't like that there are good resource tiles that are not being worked.

    If I understand you correctly the plains tile represents Qatar. And moving Qatar will be too much of a liberty. It's just the X:54 Y:43 tile is so perfect.
     
  9. Lord Brooks

    Lord Brooks Big Noob

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    Stone still isn't right. Marble is back to normal but stone is still one occurrence per two civs.
     
  10. arizzi

    arizzi Chieftain

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    Really want to thank you guys for the incredible work you've done and the extremely high quality of the mod. I'm astounded at the level of detail and impressed by how thoroughly researched each civilization and unit is. I've been playing for years (countless hours of my time) and never really got around to thanking you guys.

    That said one thing that really bothers me about the ai is its tendency to make extremely unwise war declarations. It is also very annoying. I suspect it is the rule that makes them want to attack poorly defended cities, however poorly defended becomes a relative term when the ai is fielding stacks of doom 20 or more units deep. While I understand that you want the players to properly defend their border cities, the ai will attack the player even if the player is 2 or more times their power rating.

    I've also noticed that once the idea gets the idea in its head to attack you. It will attack you ceaselessly, even if each time it attacks you it gets utterly destroyed. This leaves the player with no choice but to destroy that civilization completely every single time.

    I just wish the ai would care more about self preservation. I think the fix for these would be for the ai to place priorty on and make decisions based more off of the power rating. There is no sense in attacking a player that will crush you (most of the time).

    Anyway
     
  11. Jayman1000

    Jayman1000 Chieftain

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    If I want to use the SVN version to play the latest RI, how would I go about it? Can you direct me to the right guide on using RI with SVN?
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
  12. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    Well, I did increase its spawn rate. Maybe not enough.

    Yeah, that's not an intended AI behavior, but I've observed it several times too. Been there for quite a while, but so far we were unable to find its cause and therefore fix it.

    http://www.realism-invictus.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=825
     
    Jayman1000 likes this.
  13. Jayman1000

    Jayman1000 Chieftain

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    Once again, thanks a whole bunch for your help Walter. You guys are the best. I can't wait to play RI again!
     
  14. Jayman1000

    Jayman1000 Chieftain

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    EDIT (SOLVED, I hope): Okay so I tried deleting the Realism folder and starting over again. This time no timeout happened and everything seemed to download, no error messages. When I tried to load the mod from within Civ4 because it exited Civ4 to the desktop (as usual when loading a mod) but then it took almost a minute before the game started up again and Realism was loaded (got a bit worried as I just sat there watching the desktop lol). RI seems to work, I am playing and no errors, yay! :)


    When I tried to install RI in the SVN it stalled for 10 minutes or so and then timed out at downloading at this location:

    Realism\Assets\Art\Interface\main menu\atmosopacity3.dds
    svnDownloadRI_freeze_timeout.png

    Now the Realism folder has a green checkmark on it, so I'm confused what to do now? (The SVN did not tell me or suggest anything about what I should do when it timed out). I tried right clicking on Realism folder and choose "SVN Update" but that gives me an error:

    svnUpdate_error.png


    I then tried to execute the Cleanup command (right clicking -> Tortoise SVN -> Clean Up) but that gives me an error that the "Cleanup failed to process the following paths:"


    clean up error.png


    So when the download times out shouldn't the SVN be able to continue from the timeout position later on? It seems like a simple download timeout breaks everything :( I made sure to disable/exit antivirus, antimalware and firewall programs before installing or using the SVN, so I don't that can be an issue. I don't know what to do now. Should I just delete the Realism folder and try again right from the beginning?
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
  15. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    That would be the simplest solution. I had the same problem once, I fixed it in a more complicated way because I didn't want to lose changes I had in my working version, but for you deleting and redownloading is probably the easiest.
     
  16. Jayman1000

    Jayman1000 Chieftain

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    I started as Aztecs and some 4-5 turns after I switched to slavery a slave revolt happened two turns in a row spawning a 3 strength slave revolt unit each turn with +25 hills and +25 forest defense bonus. They just kept moving from forest/hill plot (pillaging my mines and roads that I spent +50 turns building), my best 4 strength swordsman unit with a +10% strength, +15% vs. melee, but only having 13 percent chance of victory, so to be sure to kill them I would probably need 4 swordsman per revolting slave, that's 8 strong units, of which I will probably lose at least 4 (though im hoping those slaves will make a foolish suicide attack on my capital, but doesn't seem like it yet). Historically does this slave revolt seem right? I mean these revolting slaves are super strong, though on the other hand challenge is fun, but I just got surprised.

    EDIT: During the following 15 turns I have had 3 additional slave revolts, each spawning a 3 strength revolt slave unit. Imo this is too much. I don't mind fighting barbarian units, but I have a hard time accepting slaves being such a formidable power to face?
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
  17. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    They are definitely not super strong, at least the puny 3 str ones. Firstly, you have a special promo at your disposal that gives you extra strength vs barbarians. Secondly, using something with a bonus vs melee (such as skirmisher) is probably a better idea. Thirdy, the way the combat works, you won't likely even need more than 2 shortswordsmen to kill one slave. Finally, as you're an Aztec, just rush to Jaguars, and they will just tear any revolting slaves apart.
     
  18. Jayman1000

    Jayman1000 Chieftain

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    Ah I just need more knowledge it seems, hehe. Thanks I'll get too it :)
     
  19. HannibalBarka

    HannibalBarka We are Free

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    I usually wait to have skirmishers before running slavery for that exact reason. i also position units on all (possible) improved hills and forest so slave spawn elsewhere. all in all slaves are actually a good thing because they are used to gain experience in most of my games.
     
  20. HannibalBarka

    HannibalBarka We are Free

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    I have been playing with the latest svn and have some remarks:
    A. the additional tech cost per city should maybe start after a couple of cities instead, forbidden city threshold for example. As it works today, it has to problems: 1. it removes the fun of building new cities right from the start and 2. it makes some tiny civs too advanced but too easy to conquer as well and that gives too much free wonders and techs to the conqueror which seem too easy to me.
    B. i like the way stone works now though I do not see it more frequent now (unless the change is not included in Mongoose map scripts because that is what i used lately). I however still find stone to be too big of a bonus. AI is still however not willing to trade for a resource you already have which makes the new system difficult to use through trading :-(
    C. i like playing with no city razing option on so AI do not come from the other side of a continent, capture someone's capital and raze it making it impossible for said attacked civ to recapture its capital and maybe recover later. it gave nice results. i however would like to make it possible to raze barb cities (because they spawn in crappy places). is there a way to permit razing barb cities only?
    keep the good work :)
     

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