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Realism Invictus

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by Walter Hawkwood, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. PaperPaulo

    PaperPaulo Chieftain

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    I downloaded this mod on other new computer and found it amazing. A lot of new units, distintive feel for each civilization that really has more realism and more balanced traits to have fun with, specially with negative ones.
    BTW, i have some suggestions lists around traits how to add more things to turn them more special. There goes the list:
    Positive traits-------------------------------
    Administrator - > I would increase slightly the epidemic chance reduction. The change would not turn them stronger overall but because i'm buffing all traits by add things...
    Agrarian - > I would add 1 food on city plot. The change would benefit more the food generation for those civs but because its just 1 food per city...
    Charismatic -> I would increase diplomatic bonus from other civs, to make bigger than philosophical trait. The change would replace current politician role as main diplomatic bonus for other civs, and because new politician role is more espionage through new logistics type...
    Conqueror -> I would make rural logistics from this trait a bigger value than what comes from militaristic. I don't know if there is a buff or a change here but...
    Creative -> I would add 1 science per city. The change add a slight upper hand on science long run but because its just 1 science per city...
    Expansionist -> I would add 1 hammer on city plot. The change would turn the city plot more produtive but because its just 1 hammer per city...
    Financial -> I would add 1 commerce on city plot. The change would benefit more the commerce generation for those civs but because its just 1 commerce per city...
    Humanist -> I would add 1 food on city plot. The change would turn the city plot more hospitable but because its just 1 food per city...
    Imperialistic -> I would add 1 culture from barracks. The change would grant an extra culture push for those leaders, but because its just 1 culture per barracks...
    Industrious -> I would add 1 hammer on city plot. The change would benefit more the hammer generation for those civs but because its just 1 hammer per city...
    Legislator -> I would add 1 commerce on city plot. The change would turn the city plot more profitable but because its just 1 commerce per city...
    Militaristic -> No changes, although the new mechanic Intelligence Logistics is already an implicit change.
    Philosophical -> I would add +1 diplomatic bonus from other civs. The change would fit a new role for philosophical as a second diplomatic bonus for other civs, and because new charismatic became main diplomatic bonus role...
    Politician -> I would replace the +2 diplomatic bonus from other civs into the new mechanic bonus intelligence logistics, plus make that intelligence logistics bonus bigger than what comes from militaristic. Those two changes would shift politician role from diplomatic bonus into espionage specialist, and because intelligence logistics cames into politician...
    Progressive -> I would increase science bonus multiplier by 5%. The change would increase research output to make those leaders on science edge a little more...
    Protective -> I would make urban logistics bigger than what comes from militaristic. I don't know if there is a buff or a change here but...
    Seafarer -> I would allow a non-coastal city gain +1 trade route if it is settled on a riverside. The change would allow seafarer leaders to fund expansion inland through rivers, but because it doesn't affect non-coastal cities that doesn't border a river...
    Spiritual -> I would add +1 gold from any religion. The change help the spiritual leader gain profit from spreading as many religion as he can, but because he still need to found one religion first...
    Negative traits----------------------------
    Anti Clerical -> I would slow down production of religion buildings. This would prevent players even more from building them.
    Arrogant -> I would increase diplomatic penality related for declaration of war from arrogant leaders. This would make those leaders very hated once they start warmongering.
    Barbaric -> I would slow down production of culture buldings. This would prevent players even more from building them.
    Cruel -> I would slow down healing of wounded military units. This would make them even more fragile.
    Excessive -> I would add a bit of science penality. This would make those leaders slightly behind on science race.
    Fanatical -> I would increase diplomatic penality for different state religion between a fanatical leader and other leaders. This would make those leaders a real pain if they find someone with different religion.
    Foreign -> I would slow down production of settler. This would slow down empire growth even more.
    Idealist -> I would decrease by 1 rural logistics. This would turn conquests harder.
    Isolacionist -> I would add diplomatic penality for a isolacionist leader to cancel any open borders diplomatic bonuses. This would prevent players more from sign open borders.
    Megalomaniac -> I would slow down production of unique units, unique buildings and working of unique improvements, although anything that is not explictly marked as unique for civilization is not affected by this rule. This would bring a megalomaniac feel outside of wonders, when we are speaking of uniques that civilization only has and no one else.
    Populist -> I would decrease by 1 intelligence logistics. This would turn life of enemy spies and enemy units a bit easier.
    Revolucionary -> I would increase base diplomatic penality from this trait. This would turn those leaders more hated at all.
    Schemer -> I would increase diplomatic penality for whenever the schemer and another leader are too close, speaking about close borders penality sparks tension. This would be a pain for anyone who expand towards too close of a schemer.
    Temperamental -> I would decrease by 1 urban logistics. This would encourage even more those leaders to place their troops outside cities.
    Intelligence Logistics----------------------------
    This logistics is not tied to units you have but to technology in comparisson with another civilization, because of that for each civ you meet you have to monitor a separate status of intelligence logistics that applies to that particular civ. Each technology that you had already reseached and another civilization did not yet is counted for determine if you are under intelligence logistics problem towards that civilization and how much. But technologies that both you and another civilization already researched do not count anymore for that matter, so is possible to revert intelligence logistics problems by slowing down research or choosing wisely what to research. Having intelligence logistics problems towards another civilization brings three weakenesses for you that enemy civ may exploit, (1) their spies will be more effective against you and same about their espionage, (2) their combat will be more effective against you and they may get more great generals for that, and (3) there is a diplomatic penality that make those civilizations less friendly towards you. All that intelligence logistics reminds that 'we fear you are becoming too advanced' diplomatic penality that exists on civ4 bts but it's a rework taking on a count that there is no tech trading anymore on realism invictus, so how to rework such a diplomatic penality to fit this mod and make it look awesome, with other bonuses included aswell?
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  2. ChaosSlayer

    ChaosSlayer King

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    Catherine the Great would disagree. Russia reached some of its largest territorial growth under her rule ;)
     
  3. PaperPaulo

    PaperPaulo Chieftain

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    Well, you're right. But this is only one try of rebalance of positive and negative traits, caused because we need that 'we fear you are becoming too advanced' diplomatic penality without turn on again tech trading, so the real effort first is to create a some kind of new logistics based on technologies just for that penality that is compatible both with and without tech trading, second is to rebalance positive traits as militaristic is already granting the new logistics aswell, and third is to rebalance negative traits as these should not lose their relevancy after all those buffs on positive traits.
    BTW, how would this new logistics mechanic be implemented if it would?
     
  4. dhuntgen

    dhuntgen Chieftain

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    Nov 8, 2005
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    turkey
    Great game, thanks for this great mod. If I compare something then before, siege weapons are less important than before about attacking, for reducing city defence of course needed but they cant attack directly and dont reduce all rival soldiers power. Mounted units are powerful but mostly there is not any horse on the map. And AI is smarter.

    One will, graphics are tiring eyes. Could you make more simple and understandable map graphics? its so dark.
     
  5. haroon

    haroon Deity

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    Turk mu sun?

    On which map did you play? I think if you play random map you should use "perfect world" so the resources can be distributed nicely but I suggest you to try large or huge world map first, I think it is a very intersting scenario, and the resource distribution is more planned and balanced.

    Wait until you have bombard, from there one your siege weapon can weaken and soften enemy soldier and tip the scale of the war to your side. The more advance the siege weapon the more collateral damage it can deliver to your opponent.
     
  6. The Francis

    The Francis Chieftain

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    ok, so the installer will be available next new year?
     
  7. Routalempi

    Routalempi Chieftain

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    I wonder how difficult it would be coding-wise to make "avoid growth" switch off after a city loses population to epidemics. Any ideas? It's a seemingly small change but would reduce the annoying micromanagement quite a lot.

    There's always the SVN if you don't like waiting for the official 3.4 release.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
  8. The Francis

    The Francis Chieftain

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    care to share how??
     
  9. Routalempi

    Routalempi Chieftain

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  10. The Francis

    The Francis Chieftain

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    How to tell that I am playing 3.4, after I loaded the Svn version ?
     
  11. Sathar

    Sathar Chieftain

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    There is no 3.4 yet, at least for those of us in the audience. If you use TortoiseSVN to "Update", it will give you the most current version -- currently 5112 as it looks like sjodster just pushed some code updates earlier today (hasn't broken my 5109 game in progress... yet, oh yeah: Don't update the SVN in the middle of a game :mischief:).
     
  12. Zooasaurus

    Zooasaurus Warlord

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    Hi, sorry for the late reply, but which one should i edit? the normal or light version?
    Because AI still try in vain to discover new tech, does that mean i can just not choose any tech to research then?
     
  13. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    It scales extremely well for a game that old. I wouldn't use anything higher than 1440p though - the game still scales well, but the text becomes too small.

    You can create a desktop shortcut to launch the SVN version directly. It should read
    Code:
    "%yourcivpath\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Civ4BeyondSword.exe" "mod=\Realism"
    That's how I use it (replace %yourcivpath with the actual path to your civ folder).
    That would be me and thank you. Although strictly speaking, I am not making anything - I am just converting unit models from Europa Universalis 4 with some heavy post-processing. It is a rather involved and multi-stage process, and of course it is limited to units that are within EU4's scope, which ancient Japan unfortunately isn't. It is also my wish to one day have ancient Japanese units, and I will definitely try to make them for RI in some other way, but EU4 is not something to turn to with this unfortunately.

    You are suggesting to make traits more powerful. I am very reluctant to do this, as the more powerful something is, the harder it is to balance it against all the other stuff. If anything, I am trying to scale down certain bonuses in RI for a better balance. But since you have such a detailed vision of what you want to see, you should try making a modification of RI for yourself.

    If you're using the installer option, you can always choose the exact terrain you use when installing - you can use any existing terrain pack (by not choosing to install RI terrain and later installing it separately) with RI or none at all.

    Yeah, that is rather high on my usability list as well - along with an option to avoid growth when reaching health and/or happiness limit.

    Right now, the latest SVN version is 3.4 by definition, as that is what will be going into the installer.

    But that's exactly what has been told to you, AI will try in vain to discover new tech. If you want a true stop in tech, you will have to cut the tree at some point, by making certain techs impossible to research (like Great Schism already is in RI).
     
  14. The Francis

    The Francis Chieftain

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    i was playing japan, why it takes longer and longer for me to train unit?
    i was expanding and around 90% research.
     
  15. pioswa

    pioswa Chieftain

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    new mechanic of increasing unit production cost. You can see that in unit description. For each unit of one type you build, cos of producing another unit of that type will go up by few %. So if you train only archers they become more and more expensive to produce.
     
  16. Zooasaurus

    Zooasaurus Warlord

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    I know, what i try to ask is that is it possible to just not choose any tech to research when i prompted to, as i already know it'll be in vain anyways
    Also, what's the relation with AI trying to discover tech in vain to their gameplay? also theoretically couldn't they use great person to discover techs?
     
  17. Matsuda123

    Matsuda123 Prince

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    I caught that after a while. But, needless to say, I'm still very pleased to see these in Civ 4, looks great. I also like the African walls. I look forward to the day I see those Ancient Japan units. If you need reference pictures, I've got lots of them.

    I'm also in the process of creating many new citysets for different eras in Asia and the Middle East too. So when they're complete, you can add them if you like.
     
  18. Aquila SPQR

    Aquila SPQR Prince

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    Damn... I think I'll have to abandon this mod (again, because it's the same reason I abandoned it few years ago). AI is still insanely aggressive and even when I'm 1.0 with others and with good relations (green face) they still travel across entire continents just to backstab me (really - AI is so war focused it creates stacks and then just roams across continents razing everyone - in almost every game two or three AI civs are eliminated very early because of that). I had a city on hill, walls, five archers. Indian stack of about 20 units didn't even bother with dropping def bonus - they just assaulted it and razed. And then moved to capital and razed it too. In about 50 turns I was DOWed five times, even by those who were weaker than me. Unfortunetaly it's not my idea of how civ gameplay should look like. Too bad, because I absolutely admire this mod's diversity and rich content.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
  19. Shuikkanen

    Shuikkanen Warlord

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    (Re: increasing tech costs dramatically to "cutoff" tech advancement at some point)
    You can't not choose to research a tech. Well, I think so. But it doesn't matter. Simply don't spend any resources towards researching it. Put your science slider to zero. Turn all your scientist specialists to something else.

    The AI however will likely still try in vain to discover a tech. You will therefore get a huge gold bonus in relation to it. Using a great person to research a technology does not grant you a free tech, instead it grants you a number of bulbs towards that tech. In the early game, this is the same thing. Later it will only speed your research towards that tech. So in this specific case using the great people would be useless.
     
    Zooasaurus likes this.
  20. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    Actually I did start some bigger AI improvements on that a couple months ago - and the first results was really promising - but had to take a little brake in my bigger updates.
    Now I'm slowly getting back on those too, so the mod will definitely see some changes on that front.
     

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