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Realism Invictus

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by Walter Hawkwood, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. 2popbulb

    2popbulb Chieftain

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    This bug ruined some of my games(I'm still playing 3.4).
     
  2. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    I know of this issue and I will look into it. Might be beyond my current skills to fix.

    That would likely just cause this new civ to disappear as quickly as it appeared. They are generally weaker than "natural" civs and would just be conquered in any such war. Also, the fact of them no longer being barbarians should be interpreted as the change in neighbors' perception - they are no longer treated like barbarians, and as such peace makes total sense.

    I generally try to eliminate such things, if at least because they lead to broken pedia links. Have you got any further example?

    Hm... Conscripts arriving after trench infantry is intentional, but not the fact that it makes irregular line unavailable for a while. I will reorder the upgrade lines.

    Isn't your suggestion making it an even better great scientist generator? A free specialist at a time when they are still hard to support otherwise?

    Yeah, I suspected that there might be something wrong with event triggers. I will revisit them.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Peasants'_War
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Bolotnikov
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Zicheng

    Just off the top of my head. All very specifically peasant uprisings waging organized warfare with army-sized "packs of gunpowder armed peasants". TBH, after a certain point in time, gunpowder weapons were commonplace enough it wasn't that hard to arm a rebel army with them.

    They don't go obsolete for a very theoretic situation when one would like to run paganism for the whole game. GP bonus is just a side effect of that.

    Hanging Gardens is an oversight - a leftover from the time where its main effect was instant and didn't need going obsolete. In cases of Shwedagon Paya and The Great Wall it's just because their main effects grow less relevant over time by themselves. I may add an arbitrary obsolescence to them, but it won't make all that much difference. Notre Dame only went obsolete last year, outside the timeframe of the mod :D.

    Too hard to code. OTOH, I revisited the distance formula, and it should be tamer in general.

    Since camp works for furs and deer that mostly spawn in tundra, it is quite intentional, intended to support tundra-heavy starts. Reindeer herding is a form of pastoral nomadism, after all.

    It's more of a balance thing. Deserts get flood plains, so tundra could get at least something. It is very definitely a stretch, though Civ 5 seems to agree with us in this regard. :)

    Done.

    I could never reproduce this, and there's nothing obvious leading to this in the inflation calculation formula. If I can get a save where it reproducibly happens, I can have a look.

    TBH, in many such cases (as is your previous) I don't fix the root cause of the CTD. I just fix the save for people who want to continue. That's not to say that I don't sometimes smash real bugs while doing that - but it wasn't the case here. Do you want this save looked at?

    It was a harmless but annoying encoding conflict. Fixed.

    Oh, I heard about this one before, but I never encountered it myself and nobody ever provided me with a save that would reproduce it... I'd love to have a look if you have a save from the turn before.
     
  3. sazhdapec

    sazhdapec Warlord

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    No, but if I encounter more I will tell you.

    A free great scientist. Great people do not generate GP points.

    But the third paganism wonder - Statue of Zeus - goes obsolete. Why are these wonders exceptional?

    GP generation is important. As great general emergence bonus. Shwedagon Paya effect becomes useless with a late industrial Propaganda tech.
    Notre Dame and The Kremlin are the only two medieval great wonders that don't go obsolete. It's just that.

    I understand all that. The problem is combining buffed camps and pastures. The power of some starts becomes way too high. I guess now I'll have to ask for a nerf to the food bonus: +1 instead of +2.
     
  4. BSPollux

    BSPollux Deity

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    Sorry, but no. I only have one I took right after it happened. An AI unit was waiting next to the Barb city. I moved on the same spot as the AI was sitting, ended turn and the 3 white dots above the barb banner became... many dots. thats all.

    Want the save? Guess it doesnt help..?
     
  5. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    Makes sense. I am still not sure how exactly, but I will give rebalancing GL some thought.

    That is more of an oversight - I remember all pagan stuff actually used to expire quite early.

    Notre Dame is the wonder with probably the most boring effect in game. But yeah, I guess I can assign something for both.

    No autosave from before that? The save where it already happened doesn't really help me diagnose how. Also, are you on 3.4 or SVN?
     
  6. BSPollux

    BSPollux Deity

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    I played on afterwards so the autosave was overwritten.
    And it's 3.4 with the steam version of the game
     
  7. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    BTW, GP points are still generated if a wonder goes obsolete, same as culture. IIRC it has always been the case. So if the actual effect is no longer relevant (such as Shwedagon Paya if you already know all religious civics), there is no difference between an obsolete and non-obsolete wonder.

    Also sorry for a bit of misrepresentation here. "Done" was meant for 11. This one is unfortunately at "Won't be doing as things stand" - I don't want to clutter the UI with too many buildings producing the same output - same as with canned food factories. If I had an "or" operator for converter buildings, that (among other things) would be feasible - but it's beyond my own skill to implement.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
  8. Sathar

    Sathar Chieftain

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    Persia and Finland use the same shade of white for their territory.
     
  9. sazhdapec

    sazhdapec Warlord

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    Disabled (but not obsolete) wonders stop producing both culture and GP points. Obsolete wonders continue producing culture but not GP points.

    UPD: Both disabled and obsolete wonders do not generate anything.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
  10. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    And Austria. Will probably need to come up with more colors...

    That contradicts my own tests. GP points are always generated, even when not shown next to the building in the left-hand side display. The total count on the right-hand side is increasing even with only disabled/obsolete wonders. Moreover, this is vanilla Civ 4 behaviour for obsolete wonders.
     
  11. sazhdapec

    sazhdapec Warlord

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    My bad. I was testing in a city with lots of GP points being generated.

    I wonder, however, should GP points be generated by an obsolete wonder? I assume, since this is vanilla behavior it's hard to change.
     
  12. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    \

    At least my first attempt at that was unsuccessful. So for now it stays as it is. But then again, it kinda makes sense that even ancient wonders can inspire great people to find their true calling.
     
  13. Sathar

    Sathar Chieftain

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    It is a little frustrating since I try hard to minimize Great Prophets as they are a lot more limited in their usefulness. If I yield to temptation and build a religious wonder in one of my big GP generating cities, it seems to spit out nothing but Prophets even long after Free Religion has made the Wonders otherwise worthless. I've just accepted this as one the many "Engine limitations" as you rightly point out.
     
  14. Michkov

    Michkov Emperor

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    Depending on the period you can give Austria yellow and black, them being the Habsburg colours
     
  15. 2popbulb

    2popbulb Chieftain

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    Just one thing: Unit upgrade cost. It is absolutely horrible to pay 1000 or more gold to upgrade singe unit. I hope this is fixed in 3.5.
     
  16. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    There is nothing to fix. Unit upgrade costs are working as intended in 3.4.
     
  17. Sathar

    Sathar Chieftain

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    I (almost) never used the Delete Unit button before 3.4, but deleting low-level obsolete units before upgrading softens the upgrade cost significantly, and by the later eras it usually isn't too hard to upgrade important units immediately and all others fairly quickly.

    There are a few upgrades that are particularly painful. For Civs without medium cavalry, going from Horse Archers to Mounted Handgunners is steep. Also, the entire Recon line costs so much to upgrade that I'm disbanding medium level units I'd rather keep. Conversely, because of the way the math works, there's a few bumps which are ridiculously cheap. Late melee to irregular rifles is practically free.
     
  18. Neonprime

    Neonprime Chieftain

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    In which files can I set to erase scrub tiles when some improvement is built on them just like forests and savanna?
     
  19. 2popbulb

    2popbulb Chieftain

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    You can upgrade Swordsman to Irregular for 10 gold,and if you want to upgrade Levy to Irregular it is much more expensive. Why? Both units have same base strength and are melee units.
    This is why I don't build levies. It is much better to build pikes,swords and longbows and upgrade them to Irregulars for 10 gold. You can cheaply upgrade about 35-40 units and then cost increases. This is what makes Noble games too easy. Just go for Flintlock Musket and get bunch of Irregulars and Light Infantry. Game over.
    Also,upgrading Hussar to Armored Car costs 10 gold for about 10 units and then becomes expensive.
    Going from Skirmishers to Explorers costs about 150 gold,but if you want to upgrade Explorers to Light Infantry it costs 450 or more gold per unit. Upgrading Light Infantry to WW1 recon costs about 150 gold per unit. I too disband most of skirmishers but sometimes they have many promotions and I would like to keep them.
    Upgrading Riflemen to Trench Infantry is cheap(about 150-200 gold) but upgrading Trench Infantry to WW2 Infantry is very expensive. Why? WW2 Infantry is not much better than Trench Infantry.
    There is much inconsistency in unit upgrade cost. Sometimes you get much better units cheaply and sometimes it is very expensive to upgrade and you don't get much better units.
     
  20. [Y]

    [Y] Warlord

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    I can relate to the frustration, but it's where a lot of the balance comes in. Shortdswordsmen/Levies/Irregulars/etc aren't supposed to be the core of your army. They're disposable units that help keep your core units alive. It's why they're so cheap to make, but also why they're hard to upgrade: You're not supposed to be bringing them with you across time.
     

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