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Realism Invictus

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by Walter Hawkwood, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    told you his great. :)
     
  2. f1rpo

    f1rpo plastics

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    Well, in that case, I very much hope that it'll actually work reliably. I've only tested it with one savegame ...
    Sometimes you remind me of my mother. :mischief:
     
  3. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    I've run (and still am running) several hands-off test games, and so far it works flawlessly.
     
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  4. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    well,

    im a father my self ,
    so, encouragement, is lodged in me :)

    Walter Hawkwood, glad you made progress.
     
    f1rpo likes this.
  5. Zap0

    Zap0 Chieftain

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    Just had happen in my first game what happened to some others here as well: Declared war, conquered enemy city, the next turn it went into rioting and shortly after it flipped back to their original owner despite provisional government and 9 units in the city, forcing a peace upon me. To add insult to injury, one of my core cities and another border town also joined the enemy, neither of which had any of their culture present with them.

    That's not very fun, and it does not seem to me that I had any recourse against it. Culture flips back to the original owner after conquest already don't happen. Having additional unrelated cities join the enemy instead of declaring independence or just becoming useless makes no sense, especially in my situation where I was crushing a much weaker neighbor. Forcing a peace when a city defects to someone you're already at war with should not happen.

    Granted, I only got to the middle ages this game, but the only counter to seperatism seems to be stacking units or flipping into autocracy/theocracy/traditional custom for flat reductions. Unfortunately every point of unhappiness requires 2.5 more units garrisoned, and winning wars generates war weariness quickly.
    Bit surprised Federalism doesn't give reduced seperatism, especially compared to Democracy.

    Are you planning to iterate on revolutions? I'm still undecided if they have a place in civ or not, but I want to see them become a balanced part of the game if possible.

    Edit: saw in the log for new versions you already fixed the part about being forced into peace when something seperates from you. Thank you for your work :)

    Edit2: Noting that the voiceover for Mechanics is still mismatched to the text. Unless we're getting a new voiceover suggest changing it back to Nimoy's "A god from the machine".

    Edit3: While I'm at it, it seems that a disabled Local Autonomy building still contributes its seperatism reduction.

    Edit4: Another thing; sometimes the army composition of invading civs is very unsuited to actually invading. Noticed it a few times with the Berber civ who I presume have a preference for horses and skirms.
    Spoiler :


    Edit5: Observed another silly edge case with revolutions, a city revolts from the Armenians to the Japanese and back again the very next turn :crazyeye:

    Spoiler :
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
  6. Marrci

    Marrci Chieftain

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    Is it possible that the Mayan national improvement (Pet kot) cant discover a Banana while worked?
    PLayed a couple of Maya games, let those PetKots work jungle for a while, but never made a discovery
     
  7. Sinaherib

    Sinaherib Chieftain

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    Wanted to clarify one moment about minor civs from Huge Earth Scenario - several of them are playable, but it is still impossible for player to build settlers when chosing them?
     
  8. Zap0

    Zap0 Chieftain

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    Just finished my second 3.5 game - rev 5276. Got myself into a dominant position in the industrial age in this one. The revolutions make for a really messy map (kinda like that aspect) and also serve to cut down larger empires. It makes the game more dynamic, but it's absolutely right that it's a net benefit to the player.

    This game ended in a particularly silly exchange. I see you already changed a bunch of the issues I mentioned in my last post, so scenarios like this won't be possible anymore.
    The second-highest ranked civ, the Berber who were on the other half of our shared continent, declare war. Being well-prepared I quickly razed a border town of theirs that had revolted away (some revolters in my game were still stuck in the middle ages tech-wise while I was toting rifles and every other serious civ line infantry). Then I pushed inland, taking a major core city. That conquest shot my seperatism modifier through war weariness up to ~85%, making me hard-pressed to get all cities below 10%, but I manage with all but some border cities.
    A few cities riot next turn, but bribing or autonomizing them back into line seems to keep them in check. I noted that despite several cities rioting in the same turn I only got one pop-up for how to deal with them. Riots (and breakaways) are also not noted in the event log as far as I can see.
    The second turn after conquest the revolution-apocalypse happens. The conquered city had ~220% seperatism. I suggest seperatism calculations be suspended for cities that are in anarchy. Perhaps the effect of war weariness on seperatism can be scaled down? Take, say, the square root of it so that war weainess rising into very high levels does not also incur a linear increase in seperatism.
    So the riot triggers and ALL cities but my capital (15 cities!) flip over to the enemy side. I have animations on for defensive combat so I can see what was going on and was confused when suddenly workers in safe areas started getting attacked, then I saw the changed borders.
    The kicker: before turn processing ends, all my cities (and one from the enemy) flip right back to me! They must have had a secession get triggered on the same turn.
    So every city flip moves the original garrison out of borders and spawns a scaled stack of irregulars of the new owner inside. As a consequnce I now have 15 stacks of hostile irregulars spread about my territory. On the other hand I also gained maybe 80 new irregulars in the process. This represents a significant amount of industrial output that's just spawned (and can be spawned relatively frequently if a city is prone to flipping multiple times). Depending on your position in the tech tree irregulars can be quite competetive, so I see lots of potential for this to mess with the balance and the course of ongoing conflicts. I suggest reducing the amount of spawned irregulars to just 1 per city. If possible I'd remove spawns entirely.

    In general I think that the empires in my game were insufficiently aggressive about retaking their revolting cities, I suppose they just treat them like any new civ to have diplomatic relations with. Wouldn't it make sense to be at war with a city of yours that declares independence on you? That might make the AI more prone to retake breakaway states. That directly conflicts with my suggestion to remove the defender spawns (which the AI likes to move around after revolt anyway in my observations), because how would a breakaway state defend themselves then? Should garrisoned units flip over as well? That can be gamed by the player, but not the AI, and might lead to unexpected results if you move armies to suppress unrest. Haven't thought of a good solution here.

    Espionage generation has become my favorite way of dealing with seperatism, mostly because it's the easiest one to change on the fly once you get spy slots. Also, finally a use for spy specialists!

    The new dynamic flags and empire names really add some nice flavor. They also complete my confusion about which civ is being referred to in a given instance; before I could hardly remember which civ every leader belonged to, now I also have to remember a set of civ names and a set of culture names in addition.

    Minor text issue: The wiki entry for the cement resource does not mention that it also requires coal.

    Edit: attached savefile (rev5276) in case you want to witness the weirdness. Hitting end turn on load of that save I've seen similar results to what I've described every time, except it also happens (the double-flip in one turn) even without an enemy city joining along the way.

    There seems to be a civ descriptor missing in this pop-up:
    Spoiler :
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
  9. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    The Eagle has landed, ladies and gentlemen. Go grab your 3.5 installers. :)
     
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  10. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    :))))))))))))))))))))))))))

    EDIT:
    links are down?
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2020
  11. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    Work fine for me, just checked. Remember, Sourceforge has many mirrors, and if one isn't working, you can always select a different one.
     
  12. Colon

    Colon King

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    Download link doesn't work for me either. How else can you download it?
     
  13. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    Colon likes this.
  14. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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  15. Jaded1

    Jaded1 Chieftain

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    3.5 Here we go.. Thank you to all those that made this happen.
     
  16. Colon

    Colon King

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    I again have this (also had it with 3.4) :(

     
  17. arievillo

    arievillo Chieftain

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    Did you change your terrain textures in midgame? Perhaps..
     
  18. Colon

    Colon King

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    No, just started a new game from a fresh install.
     
  19. BCheek

    BCheek Chieftain

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    Been looking forward to this for a long time. Thank you!
     
  20. BCheek

    BCheek Chieftain

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    What do you have for a graphics card and are your drivers up-to-date?
     

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