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Realism Invictus

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by Walter Hawkwood, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. tebriz

    tebriz Warlord

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    It is a normal game (custom game on a Huge map). I am sure the crash is not related to my laptop performance.
     
  2. Louis the XIV

    Louis the XIV Sun King

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    Oh, then I can't do anything. If you open the file you might be able to see why, it's just row after row of gibberish (or at least I don't understand it).
    But the crash could be related to something else like what version of the game you have
     
  3. tebriz

    tebriz Warlord

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    I have the latest SVN version with slight modifications (like modified Tech Transfer rate, starting cost of technologies and tech penalty from each new city).
    I have no idea about how save files are checked - do you mean the problem is with my specific file or....?
     
  4. Louis the XIV

    Louis the XIV Sun King

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    No the problem is most probably not with your file. All saves are saved that way, I don't know what the problem is but it's normal for the game to crash sometimes, the good thing is that the game Auto Saves from decade to decade.
     
  5. tebriz

    tebriz Warlord

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    I know that the game crashes from time to time starting from Medieval period. But in this case it crashes 100% - I mean I can’t pass beyond this turn...
     
  6. Louis the XIV

    Louis the XIV Sun King

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    Hmm, then I really don't know. Maybe you should ask the Creator of Realism Invictus. Since don't actually play Realism Invictus that much.
     
  7. tebriz

    tebriz Warlord

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    Do you think Revolutions component may be the reason?
     
  8. Louis the XIV

    Louis the XIV Sun King

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    I really don't know since I only have Realism Invictus never played it.
     
  9. Zap0

    Zap0 Chieftain

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    Revolutions are a part of RI now.

    I've observed that barbs seem to stop spawning units for dozens of turns before they form a barb civ, can anyone confirm or explain that?
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
  10. Zap0

    Zap0 Chieftain

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    Civfanatics, have a report about my last RI game:

    I've been trying to tackle the Emperor difficulty lately, took Greek civ because they get 4(!) strong unique units early on and tons of other benefits on their other units, for instance their axemen are also spearmen and get a bonus against horses, too, and their medieval warship has one bonus strength. The Greeks and the Austronesians are my fav civs in RI currently.
    So, I started on a continent with just one other AI. When I get the first unique unit unlocked, the Spartan Homoioi, I build up to the maximum I can support at 0% research and declare war. Conquest goes well initially, but stalls after two cities taken. A rather drawn-out war follows, but eventually I'm able to take all six enemy cities (one was in a spot I didn't like and got razed). This was somewhat of a necessitiy for expansion as my half of the continent had really ****** resource distribution. I've noticed before that the RI_Planet_Generator script is pretty stingy with food resources and this time around it wouldn't even give me jungle rice.
    The AI I just conquered was somewhat more advanced than I was (defending it's last cities with serfs while I was still in the middle of the classical age). Having run 0% or near 0% research for easily 100 turns put me behind on the tech tree, bad. A cute barb civ popped up during the war, which I got open borders with to accelerate tech gain. I predict I'll be invaded by the middle of the middle ages, (transcontinental troop movement requires the merchantman transport vessel, which is at the start of the renaissance). Sure enough, soon the games tech leader, Dravidia, finds me and not too long after a bunch of other civs.
    The conquered cities get integrated and I'm actually running up to 70% research at points again. I decide it's time to continue growing and declare on the barb civ, now getting open borders tech boosts from the other civs that found me. There's still open space on my continent and I know that other civs are going to squeeze themselves in once they have the ability to do so, but the first of these cities is planted in a truly terrible position at the tip of a peninsula (where I'd razed another AI city in my previous war). I resolve to grab as much land as possible as soon as I can (though in my experience the land-grab phase where one can support a large amount of cities only comes in the renaissance after getting free market), but not long after the Dravidians, who'd planted the city, carry out a naval invasion on me.

    Spoiler :


    Over fifty units land next to one of my cities, defended only by a spearman. Even having the ability to do that means they're a couple techs into the renaissance, and my still entirely almost entirely classical army is twenty tiles away besieging a city. My best unit is the medieval swordsman and the equally 7-strength Vasilika unique unit that unlocks with the same tech.

    Needless to say, that was GG.
    Savegame attached. You get bonus points if you can guess which leader the Germans had by the names of their conquered cities.
     

    Attached Files:

    Snowygerry likes this.
  11. arythm1a

    arythm1a Chieftain

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    I can confirm that the hotfixes are savegame compatible, in case anyone else wonders.
     
  12. sazhdapec

    sazhdapec Warlord

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    1) Your starting position is far from ideal. I usually regenerate such starts. I also don't like it when there are few starting players. On a huge map I put 30 civs.
    2) Your leader is quite bad for the strategy you've chosen. Protective doesn't give combat bonuses (I suppose you didn't attack with mass Gastraphetes). Progressive helps you when you prioritize research which you zeroed. And finally populist hurts your big early empire. And you run civil religion.
    3) Homoioi is not really an attack unit. Most of its bonuses will be negated when it attacks. You only built 3 Ekdromoi - the core unit of its era.
    4) Now your save)
    Wow your empire is vast. 8 cities... I don't allow myself such an amount even in the industrial era.
    You have a weak economy. Very few working towns.
    Your invading army has only one Hoplite, zero Peltasts, only two Catapults, very few Levies compared to the number of defenders.
    Why did you place Thessaloniki there? Why didn't you go north?
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
  13. Zap0

    Zap0 Chieftain

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    Wow, thanks for the detailed look at my game!

    Agreed. My start lacks food, as does the surrounding area. More players for early contact I found to be essential just for the open borders tech and commerce boosts. The RI_Planet_Generator script typically gets you into contact with other continents due to it's non-standard placement of coastal tiles even a few tiles out from land, but by setting the minimum distance between continents to 8 (instead of a default 3 or 4) I wanted to see if the script would actually generate you separated continents... it did.

    Also quite true. I really regretted not having picked Alexander the Great later. My reasoning behind Progessive/Protective was that I was most likely going to find myself on the defensive and struggling with tech. That didn't work out.
    It seems civic upkeep is scaled to your empire size? Wasn't really aware of that... I actually reverted to paganism for a long time during the war to save on cash as I wasn't constructing buildings anyway and revolted into it when I was building up the German cities.

    Homoioi isn't really that well suited for attack, but with it's 5 base strength it can work. The Homoioi were really the MVP of my last campaign, saving me against the occasional war elephant when they'd reconnected the resource. Having elephants and all the strategic resources I could want myself and them only elephants and copper was really helpful in the war.
    Regarding Ekdromois (Shortswords), I was struggling with upkeep and only had two cities producing units (until I got the first captured ones running). I was typically building hoplites (axes) and the unique units instead, more bang for your buck (quite literally) with them. I was also lacking the food income to really churn them out. Maybe I could have utilized slavery for the food boost, but I wasn't sure at all in my ability to put down revolts.

    I know I'm too big, but what can I do? I was trying to compensate somehow and while I was building up the German cities I could run at least half research, more if a couple cities built wealth, so it seemed to be going okayish. In my typical games (large map/monarch) I tend to find the maximum number of cities I can afford to be 3-4 when entering the middle ages and 6 when ending them. By the time the industrial age comes around it's more like 16-24... at that point I've typically pulled far enough ahead of the AIs to lose interest in continuing.
    Could it be that city maintenance costs are scaled to map size?

    The catapults are my own fault, I'd deleted the rams I'd been using before and didn't build new catapults in time, hence bombarding these walled cities down takes forever. Still, with every unit costing almost 2 gold maintenance per turn I am loathe to build more than I have to - even if I like the stack aid they give, it's not worth that much gold.
    At this point I'd already foregone Hoplites (Axes) in favor of medieval swordsmen. Since I'm already sieging his cities I returned the Peltasts (skirmishers) to barb spawn suppression duty. They die too often attacking cities, especially as I don't have withdrawal upgrades on mine, and elephants can still walk over the odd unit he parks outside of his cities. Now, maintaining a large force of levies is something I can't afford, but I have a few there and am building more as cannonfodder. I'm very interested in seeing how other people structure their armies.

    The main problem in picking a city spot was the lack of food. There's simply no food up north, only the occasional seafood resource. In Thessaloniki's position it can access two seafood resources and, often a critical factor for my early-game city planting, it's on a hill. I was torn between planting it on a coastal tile and there since fishery/lighthouse powered fresh water lakes are awesome tiles, but opted for the hill in the end. The hill turned out not to matter as my only neighbor wasn't aggressive :-(

    Now I've tried to explain the reasoning behind my choices but they are by no means correct - I lost after all. I'm very interested to see how others play the game, make choices and think about their situation. If anyone knows detailed AARs and Let's Plays, shoot me a link!
     
  14. sazhdapec

    sazhdapec Warlord

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    Of course.

    You have Peltasts in the main army for the very important aid bonus (to compensate first strikes of defenders).

    You build large amounts of cheap irregulars to be cannon fodder. Don't worry about maintaining them: you will lose them a lot. So your expensive specialized units had much better chances at winning.

    My main principle is this: stack as many relevant aid bonuses as possible and a throng of irregulars.
     
  15. Zap0

    Zap0 Chieftain

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    I like the recon aid bonus mostly for it's withdrawal chance, first strike effects I completely ignore. Unless the enemy has something like 6-8 first strikes I don't see them make a difference unless the combat odds are very equal, but at that point I'd rather have another 10% strength bonus than a first strike.

    Irregular spam is a powerful thing, but only relying on them to attack requires too many imho. Trying to crak an archer defending a city you can often use one man-at-arms with city raider 2 or three levies to do the same job. Assuming you can produce three levies in the same time as one MaA you still have to support and supply three times as many units (even if they die quickly) and you reach the logistics limits of your stacks sooner. Of course things look different if you don't have the tech or resources for dedicated assault units and the power difference between shortswords and axes is slightly smaller than between levies and MaA.
    I actually quite like the balance struck in RI between irregulars and "professional" units.

    Here's a new mystery: Why is the sulfur tile not in my borders? Both Athens and Thessaloniki are refined level culture.
    you shall not mine.png
     
  16. sazhdapec

    sazhdapec Warlord

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    First strikes are important. High power archers with uncontested first strikes can (and will) kill a lot of attackers without getting damaged.

    Even one irregular with proper aid support and a bit of luck can damage a strong defender.

    It's because of the 'special' way culture grows through water tiles.
     
  17. arythm1a

    arythm1a Chieftain

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    Although overall i really like the separatism system, I feel like it makes late game warfare completely impossible. I am trying to invade the Zulu, and my war weariness inevitably goes up to over 200% after only a few turns. A few of my cities rebel, and the cities i finally manage to conquer from the Zulu instantly have several hundred percent of separatism (in spite of the -500 bonus) because of the war weariness. Imo, the provisional government needs to be stronger - for those 50 turns, the city should essentially be immune to separatism. I also feel like the war weariness modifier goes up way too quickly. How do the rest of you feel?
     
  18. Zap0

    Zap0 Chieftain

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    My feelings are that seperatism is a cool idea but doesn't work in practice. Just turn it off.
     
    arythm1a likes this.
  19. sazhdapec

    sazhdapec Warlord

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    Though I personally have never encountered grave consequences of separatism I think there should be a separatism reduction bonus for conquering cities. Something like -X in every city for Y turns. Where X is the percent of your civ's culture of each affected city and Y is a size of a conquered city. Thus your core cities would be less likely to revolt.

    However, I also think that lategame wars should be more costly. Are you doing enough to protect yourself from separatism? Are you turning up an espionage slider? Are you choosing less 'free' civics?
     
    arythm1a likes this.
  20. arythm1a

    arythm1a Chieftain

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    I was indeed running dictatorship, and have none of the civics which disincentivise war. And I was using espionage - a few turns into the war it was at around 60% i think, which was all i could literally afford. But honestly, even at 100% espionage, this type of war exhaustion at that point in the game was just... impossible to avoid. After a siege of an important where I lost a lot of troops, the conquered city was at around 500% separatism, so I instantly lost the city I had bled so much for in addition to 5-6 other cities in my empire. It really feels like lategame wars are impossible to fight, or at least extremely risky. I really love this idea and the work put into it, but maybe I will also end up turning it off.
     

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