1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Realism Invictus

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by Walter Hawkwood, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. WaywardRogue77

    WaywardRogue77 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    Messages:
    28
    Location:
    US
    I copied and modified the Huge World Map scenario. It doesnt include the Americas, South Africa, nor anything south of asia basically. I still have the distance from Japan to Europe at about 40 spaces, (bc i didnt want them to close together). I made the map no xFlip at first, but didnt like that bc x0 is so close to the irish which provided no room for maneuvering a fleet), so decided to leave it where Asia could travel around the globe and vice versa. Pretty happy with it, and it's just for me really, so im fine.

    The only thing I wish I could really figure out is how to totally remove a civ from the scenario? I removed all the land, forts, units, etc..but found the only way for it to work was to place all the civs that were originally on the land that were removed, out to the ocean some where (x=0,y=0) and once the game begins they "die" and so are removed as a civ. I know how to make them unplayable and not show up in the selection screen, but to totally remove them i dont know. (I even went into the xml and painstakingly removed all references to the teamOwner, teamCulture, teamContact, etc) but no luck.

    Anyway, it's fine, it works and is all good, just wish I could have them removed instead of "killing" them lol
     
  2. WaywardRogue77

    WaywardRogue77 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    Messages:
    28
    Location:
    US
    well. there’s a lot to it actually. I would check out the post here. You have to delve into the xml and understand what all it’s connected to. See if this helps you out
     
  3. Sathar

    Sathar Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2012
    Messages:
    116
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Alumina Refinery gets a +50% build speed bonus from Coal, but it is impossible to build without Coal.
     
  4. WaywardRogue77

    WaywardRogue77 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    Messages:
    28
    Location:
    US
    So, here is my new Huge world map for the scenario (minus the Americas and south of asia). I added the xwrap to 0 and centered the world better. Also added like you did in he Europe scenario where each side of the map has basically the resources from the Americas. (decided not to make the xwrap true)
    It's not the best, but I like it, so im gonna go with it. (Still cant figure out how to truly get rid of some tribal civs, hence why i just made the swashi have a little piece off of African coast) but all in all it's ok with me.

    (Start as Egypt to see things as they should be at the start before processes begin running in worldbuilder and making changes)

    maybe I cant remove the unwanted civs/tribes bc they have to be in some order in the xml?
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,440
    Location:
    London, UK
    Given those some more thought, and I've reconsidered implementing those.

    * More restrictive prerequisites remove the tactical choice from player to invest in the then-expensive tech to beeline to war elephants (imagine a situation where you have no horses and no metals, yet you desperately need a military edge). Era tech costs already make such a beeline an extremely expensive investment, so weighing it down more with another tech seems an overkill

    * This change would make early wonders available to you basically 100% dependent on what resources you roll in your capital, as it will be nearly impossible to quickly secure a key resource. The difficulty of RI (and Civ games in general, come to think of it) is already very heavily dependent on your starting spot, and this would serve to make it even more deterministic.

    * While it is not the most useful wonder, the cost already factors that in - even if you don't have any resources, this is already the cheapest contemporary wonder. The pagan temple cost has already been "subtracted" from it - even if you add it back, it is cheaper than its contemporary Ishtar Gate.

    Same way one adds them into any mod I guess, through quite a bit of effort. :)

    The link WaywardRogue77 gave above seems like a good place to start, but there are lots of additional considerations, such as adding dynamic city names, flags and stuff. Basically, each Civ in RI is roughly 50x more content than a vanilla civ (all the flavour units, buildings, leaders etc., as well as the stuff I mentioned before that simply doesn't exist in vanilla).

    Thanks, well spotted. Should have been cement. Fixed.

    Have you actually tried editing the map file by hand (in Notepad++ for instance) at this point? Removing a civ is rather easy there - you find its team entry and set it to that of an empty slot (starting with 58 for that map, just find and replicate the 58th team entry), then do the same for player entry, and make sure to delete anything owned by that civ (searching for "owner=* should be the easiest way to achieve that). Voila, they're gone.

    Also, some design advice - try to add a fresh water source and a bit more space to all the "New World bits" so that AIs can consider it a good place for a city.
     
  6. Aweman

    Aweman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2006
    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Bay Area, California
    Love the new version of this mod, except....my favorite unit was removed. In previous version of Invictus, the Baltic spearman for the polish empire were special units and they had the Baltic tribe names attached to them; Latvians, Latgals, Semigallians, etc. Those are my ancestors! I did notice the Lithuanian empire was added but is not playable. Overall good job on the mod. I uninstalled the old version of Invictus, hopefully the files for those tribes are recoverable. What was the reasoning for removing those?
     
  7. Spillsandstains

    Spillsandstains Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2008
    Messages:
    235
    Hi Walter I am a big fan of yours. I have a picture of you which I burn incense in front of ... no, really. Hawkwood is my favorite color. OK some minor glitches with RI, they might have been mentioned already ... the unit animation for the pzh2000.nif/artillery_mobile_germany is stated as vanilla mobile artillery, but i found out by trial and error - mostly error - the fan art 2s1 by ??? (argh can't remember but they are fantastic). Even more pedantic and annoying, the art/units/unique/dutch mtsl-1gi4 doesn'tr show up in the box on the bottom left of the screen. I don't know the technical name for it, because ... I don't read tutorials or guides. I am bad at flatpack furniture.
    Finally, thanks for your contributions to the civ4 community, I really appreciate it xxx
     
  8. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,440
    Location:
    London, UK
    That's the exact reasoning: since we now have a separate Lithuanian civ, it felt wrong to include those as Polish NU. I understand the frustration you might have given your ancestry, but in your case, I'd probably recommend opening Derivative_CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml, finding CIVILIZATION_HALYCH_VOLHYNIA (it was replaced by Lithuanians) and setting <bPlayable>0</bPlayable> to 1. While they don't have an NI and only have 1 NU instead of 2 that current playable civs have, it should nevertheless be fully playable and quite enjoyable :)

    Thanks, I'll check those out and fix them!
     
  9. WaywardRogue77

    WaywardRogue77 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    Messages:
    28
    Location:
    US
    SEE EDIT (finally got it)

    yes, I did use Notepad++. I removed them, also using regex commands to ensure they were gone, but when I started the game it says “You have been defeated”. So I figure it’s trying to place something that’s not there and it fails.
    I found after looking a bit that there was a warrior, not the civ I was removing, that had the same unit name as the civ I was trying to remove. Unit_Warrior_Bantu I think. This unit was part of the Nubians but tied somehow to the Bantu still. Once I found that and removed it the Bantu civ went away as I desired.
    So the others also will have similar units to find and remove to finally get all those civs out of the game.
    The problem I was having is that I was following guides on how to remove them, seemed pretty easy, but it failed time and again. That’s why I figured I was just doing something wrong. Anyway, I’ll get it eventually.

    ty for the advice on the Americas islands. I was pondering on that myself actually. I just copied the ones you had in the Europe scenario and used those. I’ll add a few tiles to each. I appreciate the feedback.

    Edit: I finally figured out what was going on. No matter what I removed in the xml file the game would simply start and immediately say "You have been Defeated". The issue was somehow that some units were tied to units that existed on the map for another civ. Not sure why/how, but i changed all the units for the civs that i wanted to remove to barbarian units/cities/forts then i removed those as the barbarian player and it worked!
    This allowed me to change south africa more to my liking. I also fixed up the Americas and some of the northern ends of the map.
    Pretty happy with it. Ty for your wonderful mod and all your help!
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 13, 2021
  10. DisposableHero

    DisposableHero Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2009
    Messages:
    80
    Are volcanic eruptions meant to be frequent? I’m not sure if it’s just bad RNG or cognitive bias but I find they happen very often - up to including 3 different eruptions in 3 successive turns (actually I think it was the same one twice and then a second).
     
  11. sazhdapec

    sazhdapec Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2015
    Messages:
    175
    There you go;)
     
  12. Ungomma

    Ungomma Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    14
    Hello, Walter! Long time, no see. :)

    Your mod is still the best Civilization experience there is. I'm currently playing a Rome campaign on a huge world map and would like to offer some comments and suggestions.
    1. Revolutions are an awesome addition!
    2. I felt that Armor Crafting is too late in the tech tree. For most of classical era you are left to fight with axemen and by the time you get Armor Crafting the Medieval era is only a few techs away. In fact, many AIs in my game entered Medieval era before they ever got swordsmen (via Guilds) - Egypt trained their first Pezhetairoi after they founded Islam. Perhaps instead of requiring Politics a Code of Laws or Tolls and Taxes would suffice?
    3. Dynamic name for autocracy Germany is Holy Roman Empire until Industrial era, which is jarring in 2000 BC. I've added a new entry, Suebic Kingdom, for Ancient and Classical eras, which is not perfect but still better than HRE.
    4. Also, why is HRE a name for autocracy? The Emperor's power was anything but autocratic in that polity.
    5. I usually play the huge world map and I've noticed there are no fertile soils anywhere. :(
    6. The dynamic city names mod seems to override the custom scenario city list for the Turks which results in Konstantiniyye being a jewel of Central Asia.
    7. I couldn't help but make a few changes to the AI. In my game there were too many weird wars. Why would France attack Persia in the Classical age with TOTAL warplan, having to traverse 6 nations to get there?
      1. AIs are discouraged to sign open borders with neighbouring civs and with weaker civs (rough attempt to reduce tech sharing to rivals).
      2. Close cities are heavily prioritised in war spoils estimations.
      3. Also, wars with distant players (distance between capitals) now require more commitment.
    So far all this seems to work and the wars are far more reasonable and bordergore is reduced.
    Thank you for still working on this masterpiece of a mod!
     
  13. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,440
    Location:
    London, UK
    What you have, I feel, is a case of bad RNG. That said, random events do feel too arbitrary for many players, and lots of people prefer to play with those off.

    Thanks! Welcome back. Your feedback is always welcome.

    TBH I've actually realized that it turned out to be too micromanagement-heavy to be enjoyable. Going forward, it'll be an off-by-default option.

    Swordsman is intended to be specifically late-Classical era reformed military, such as Roman legions. So the fact that it's only available in late classical is rather intentional. It actually also corresponds in terms of occurrence well to the spread of longsword (at least in Europe), so it's also thematically appropriate.

    I agree that it could use a bit more granularity, but for Autocracy I prefer using anything with "Empire" in it, simply for visual convenience of players. "Frankish Empire" is the fitting one strictly speaking, but it would cause too much confusion with France even if I changed theirs to Gallic Empire. So we could probably go with a somewhat ahistorical "Germanic Empire" or a more neutral "Germania". There are also very few early Germanic symbols to be used for the flag that haven't been hijacked by nazis... :mischief:

    While the latter part of its existence it was indeed more of a confederation, initially it was a proper empire. Basically, this is the Carolingean or the Ottonian version of it.

    That's intentional. Resources are already pre-placed in the scenario where they're supposed to be, so there's no need for fertile soils. It's more of a mechanic invented for random maps.

    Thanks for pointing out - I feel like there was supposed to have been an exception for this one, but I guess it's easier to just change the leader to, say, Alp Arslan than coding it.

    Care to share?
     
  14. aantia

    aantia Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2019
    Messages:
    18
    I've just noticed that Slaves can't build the Latifundia improvement, and get the option to build Slave Farms instead. I'm on the SVN version.
    Thanks for the excellent mod, and all your hard work!
     
    WaywardRogue77 likes this.
  15. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,440
    Location:
    London, UK
    Slaves generally can't build any civ-specific improvements. Since the civ-specific improvements are better than their generic counterparts (when those exist), it's simply up to player's discretion not to use them to build inferior versions of stuff.
     
  16. Toys®Us

    Toys®Us Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    160
    Location:
    Shawinigan
    I have been a member for a very long time on this site. For several years, I have not participated in the discussions here. BUT, it is important for me to say one thing: "Realism Invictus" is the best MOD for Civ4. And I will go further; with this MOD, Civ4 is the best game ever.
    Thanks a lot to everyone who participated in the project.
    ...
    I still have the original CDs. And right now I'm playing CIV4, with the "Realism Invictus" MOD.
     
    Snowygerry and WaywardRogue77 like this.
  17. WaywardRogue77

    WaywardRogue77 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    Messages:
    28
    Location:
    US
    Easily the best mod I have ever played, hands down. I can do nothing but agree with you. You’re not alone!

    Walter,
    What is the deal with the new open borders change? It’s really annoying to have the civs flip constantly from open to not open. Was that the intention? I DO like that not everyone will give you open borders (makes earning those techs a bit more priority) but it makes it hard to micromanage all the “will sign open borders” snippets you need to watch for. Even when someone is friendly they constantly sign and then drop open borders? I guess I feel that it makes sense for anyone under friendly to drop them on a whim, but when you’re giving horses and copper for open borders it would seem that the UI would not want to let go of those resources to drop borders. (Happened in a game I’m playing now. I’m +10 friendly and the other civ doesn’t have horses nor copper. I traded that to get open borders and he still dropped them a few turns later)

    One thing I noticed (not a complaint as I would NEVER go that route) playing through a good bit was that the Turkish unique improvement seems to come too late IMO. Huge world map scenario. Usually my cities are “stale” by the time the awesome improvement comes up. (granted their territory is slim pickings anyway) No growth and starving for hammers a good bit before they get their UI. By then, you’re just about at the time where you would switch out of Pastorial Nomadism as well, in favor of farms so your cities can grow, or thereabouts anyway. Just wondering your thoughts on it? (Maybe I’m playing them wrong, etc)
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2021
  18. Ungomma

    Ungomma Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    14
    I think that these are my *experimental* changes acting experimental. Walter merged them in yesterday. I've included relative power into the equation and that probably makes Open Borders more volatile than they should be. Were you close in power to that civ?
    I will remove relative power from calculation or add a threshold later today, so in a few days the annoyance will pass.

    Thanks for the feedback.
     
  19. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,440
    Location:
    London, UK
    Thanks, this means a lot! :thumbsup:

    As Ungomma indicated, this is a part of an experimental AI change; any feedback is much appreciated, so please don't feel afraid of sounding negative. If something doesn't work or is causing annoyance, it's best to let me know. I'll look into it.

    It's more or less intentional - Turks are supposed to get a power boost around Medieval era. But I agree that it might be moved a bit earlier.

    What I did for the next revision to begin addressing this is I've added a flat +2 to AI_openBordersTradeVal if the Open Borders are already in place; my idea is that it will make the decision to open border more "sticky" and require a more drastic change in the situation to drop existing open borders, thus causing less flip-flopping. If you have any further ideas on that, feel free to chime in. BTW, in terms of more sensible wars, I am seeing very nice results in the several hands-off tests I ran.
     
  20. WaywardRogue77

    WaywardRogue77 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    Messages:
    28
    Location:
    US
    Oh, I see. I keep forgetting these are SVN commits lol. I started a new game up and figured I might as well get all the goodies in the works. I sure appreciate the work. (I'm a developer myself in the real world and know what goes into it)

    I am currently playing the Europe scenario. I have met about 10 civs or so. Israel and Egypt are my neighbors. Egypt has a different religion than I do, Israel the same. I have also helped Israel out in a war. Some civs (understandably) dont desire open borders right off (I really like this addition as I felt it was way too easy and beneficial to civs), but a couple of turns later they will want them. Then, very quickly they will drop them again...and want them again, etc.. Even the top event scroll will say "so and so will sign open borders" then you go to sign with them and they decline. So it's alot of annoyance seeing that and then asking for open borders only to be turned down, even if you ask "What do you want for this?", it’s no good. I just ended up saying, "You know what, If you dont popup and ask me for open borders, Im not going to worry about watching the top event scroll"

    Israel, whom I would expect to want them and keep them, as we are "friends", basically does the same thing, although not quite as frequent. Now, I havent paid attention to my relative power level, im up towards the top in score and mediocre on military power right now. I’m their nearest neighbor with Egypt a close second. Not sure what I was power wise at each iteration, but it happened constantly anyway.
    Another civ was Turkey, really far off, but friends with me really fast. They too would sign open borders and then drop them alot. Essentially, it seems as though the UI will only have them open for 10-15 turns or so then drop for awhile (maybe even another 10-15) and want them again. Just some details on it. I can share the save if wanted?

    What I would like, and couldnt figure out how to do, was to make it where they valued strategic resources very highly. Especially if they dont have them. If this is the case, and you offer those it should increase their relations with you quite significantly IMHO. In addition, taking them back should affect relations negatively as well, if that civ really needed those resources.
    Also, if the UI has many extra resources, and you have some important ones they want (Incense if religious, copper/iron/etc, salt/crab,etc if unhealthy) it would be more "human-like" if they offered a "good deal" to get those from a player. (Not sure how much work this would be , if anyone besides me cares, or if it matters enough lol, and would be just a nice to have anyway)

    I can mess with the xml, and im learning where the code parts tie in, but the .dll I don't really want to mess with tbh. I know a variety of languages, and can pretty much read them all, as you probably know as a dev, but lack the time commitment to really dig into it. The game is perfect the way it is. One could play it as is forever and be perfectly content. Anyway, those are my thoughts and what I've witnessed with this new addition.

    BTW, What's the goal of the changes? To make war less common with distant civs? Open borders harder to achieve? Science harder to maintain? I would love the fact that some civ doesn’t march halfway across the world because you offended them. I mean, sure, your relations should suffer. They should “go after you”, as far as trade embargoes and open borders, spy’s, etc, but not really feasible to send an army marching a thousand miles because you pissed them off.

    I figured as much. Makes sense, especially on the huge world map. Still, it seems the UI is late in arriving for that civ. Now when you do get it..wow...you become a machine, but I'm usually far behind by that point, as my cities are small compared to other civs and im also teetering on changing out of the PN civic.

    Ty guys for all your work!
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2021
    Snowygerry likes this.

Share This Page