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Realism Invictus

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by Walter Hawkwood, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. WaywardRogue77

    WaywardRogue77 Chieftain

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    Absolutely love the new look and UI! Awesome stuff, well done!
    Conqueror and Militaristic are even better now. Conqueror kinda makes more sense to me with City Raider and I think Militaristic needed nerfed a little bit IMO anyway.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2021
  2. WaywardRogue77

    WaywardRogue77 Chieftain

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    @Grassland Farm - I just love the scenarios. I hardly play random maps anymore bc I enjoy alot of civs in "real world" places and times so much. The Europe scenario is one of the best, just bc the size is smaller than the Huge world map one (which is by far the greatest thing ever created in the history of mankind! akum....sorry). I also enjoyed the Deluge and Triassic ones as well. The Crusades one is very challenging and is a "niche" time frame, but is also very cool. I found that you can play the Huge world scenario pretty well nowdays. it will crash here and there past the Renaissance era, but overall it's just great. A you tuber named Hadriex played through the entire thing basically. It was awesome to watch. I customized that particular scenario for myself (removed the Americas, most of South of Asia/India and south africa. Made the map smaller overall, particularly less wide, and I can get much further bf any crash occurs now. I also created a few alternative ones with different starting leaders. But that's just something I modified for myself basically) Crashes occur naturally, as the game was never intended to accommodate such large volumes of data, so it's not the mod, it's the game itself basically that will crash at those points. if you save a good bit during those eras you can easily play those out.
     
  3. fdrpi

    fdrpi Prince

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    Massachusetts
    Bug report: Nothing happens when you try and use the "choose desired technology" from Great People. I also don't know how to break ice, as it's listed as an option but no mention of how is to be found.

    EDIT: The Seaside Resort does not require being built on the coast. It might be counting lakes as coast.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2021
  4. Grassland Farm

    Grassland Farm Warlord

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    How many civs do you go for? The default numbers leave quite a lot of empty room and if you got for random leaders for all AIs, they could very well end up with the Americas all for themselves.
    I'll try adding as many civs as possible and see what happens...
     
  5. Snowygerry

    Snowygerry Prince

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    That's more or less what happened yes :)

    I randomly drew the Arabs, default numbers, currently there are 13 rivals on map, and Roosevelt is alone on his continent has eliminated his only rival there...

    Since this is 3.5 he will probably over-expand and collapse at one point so I'm not that worried.

    Edit, after playing on a bit I've come to the conclusion that on this map it is probably best to hand pick the starting civs, they seem to start in their historical location and this manner you can distribute them over the map as desired. Expansion, revolutions and formation of barbarian civs should fill out the rest of the the map nicely.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2021
  6. sazhdapec

    sazhdapec Warlord

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    A bit of feedback (SVN 5315).
    1) I'm sorry but I'm sure that there is a bug or a flaw in AI's decision making. The only AI in the whole world not using Protectionism is Armenia because it didn't research Mercantilism yet.
    2) With the latest change to Protectionism the special ability of Import Tariffs "-50% foreign trade route yield" is obsolete.
    3) The French Bombard Veuglaire has a +20% attack bonus vs archery and melee units but it cannot attack.
    4) The French Cuirassier's selection box is larger than a map tile.
    5) It's possible to build cottages on grassland hills but not on plain hills. Is this intentional?
    6) A bit of event mechanics rant.
    - Please please please disable (or at least make it happen later in the game) forest fire events. It's so frustrating to have them in the earlygame when I don't have means to cope with a red face and a lost forest.
    EVENT_FOREST_FIRE_1, EVENT_FOREST_FIRE_2, EVENT_FOREST_FIRE_3 in CIV4EventInfos.xml
    EVENTTRIGGER_FOREST_FIRE in CIV4EventTriggerInfos.xml
    - Since inflation was removed from RI the event reducing its value is obsolete.
    EVENT_FEDERAL_RESERVE_1, EVENT_FEDERAL_RESERVE_2 in CIV4EventInfos.xml
    EVENTTRIGGER_FEDERAL_RESERVE in CIV4EventTriggerInfos.xml
     

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    Last edited: May 24, 2021
  7. paichtis

    paichtis Chieftain

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    2/ doesn't this apply to routes with vassals ? Besides I think you can only build it under protectionism but it is not disabled when leaving it (I may be wrong though)
    6/ I got an inflation event and it was a huge boost to my economy so they are not obsolete. I still could not find ingame where inflation plays a role (civc maintenance ?)
     
  8. sazhdapec

    sazhdapec Warlord

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    I got an inflation event this game and nothing changed. If you open economic advisor there is no inflation category.
     
  9. paichtis

    paichtis Chieftain

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    There is no inflation category indeed. I still got a BIG boost (unexpected really) from such event but you didn't. You're right there's something fishy about all this.
    Maybe it's the options used ? (nor revolutions nor religious shock) Maybe an interface oversight ? It's too bad I didn't think of keeping the save at the time.
     
  10. Zap0

    Zap0 Chieftain

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    I asked the same thing a while ago, and there still is inflation. It's been banished to a tool-tip on the expenses summary in the financial screen.
    inflation.png
     
  11. WaywardRogue77

    WaywardRogue77 Chieftain

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    EDIT: note this is on the huge world map scenario however, so could be bc of the number of civs

    How do people like the open border relations with the AI civs that was introduced recently? Just wondering, as from what I’ve experienced, you may have open borders with any one AI for around 15 turns or so before the AI civ drops them with you, and will then ask again some turns later. Generally, but not always, repeating this process. Usually this seems to be only when they want to pass through your lands, although not every time . A little annoying, but I get it I guess. It’s better than having open borders with almost everyone the entire game.(which I wasn’t a fan of tbh)
    It appears, in my game play anyway, that the player will only have about 20% overall open borders with the AI civs at any one time. (So 2 out of 10 civs basically) Is that ok, considering most of the tech “trading” is setup around the open border relationship within the game? If so, I’m fine with it, but I wish that the AI civs that have pleased or higher relations would be more open to them. No matter distance from player.

    (It seems to be related to the closeness of the AI civ in question and the tech level/power level of said player compared to that AI civ. At least if I’m reading the code right. To me, close or not, if the AI has a good relationship with the player they would have a good reason to pursue open borders, or the other way around, the same reason not to end open borders with the player)

    Also, a bigger annoyance is that text will pop up indicating that so and so civ will sign open borders (or trade for some resource, or negotiate peace) but in actuality, they will not. When clicked on they basically say “no way, I’m not doing that”. Just wanted to point those two things out in case that is not the intended results.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2021
  12. Snowygerry

    Snowygerry Prince

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    May have to do with the map, at least I noticed that AIs are more frequently asking/cancelling open borders on a world map compared to a random map, it seems they recognise 'choke points' to some degree, and the fact map is 'blocked off' on one side in the early game.

    In my current game I created a 'Suez canal' by settling there quite early and the European civs were constantly begging for passage to India - quite neat really :)

    This is the original 3.5 too, so probably little to do with recent changes...
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2021
  13. sazhdapec

    sazhdapec Warlord

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    I feel like an idiot. I didn't know that inflation "moved" from a full category to a tooltip.
    Just ran a test game to sort this out. I had 116% inflation at the end of a turn. The next turn the event triggers. I choose the -25% option and I don't get the reduced inflation (it becomes 117%). It seems that the event is not working (at least for me).
     

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  14. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    So fdrpi and sazhdapec have basically report-shamed me into doing a couple more bug-fixing revisions before trying to build 3.55 installer again (with which I am having trouble). :shifty:

    Thanks man! :thumbsup:

    I will see that implemented, though given the amount of tinkering, probably post-3.55.

    Paganism yes, animism no. Animism has a clear tradeoff of disallowing a state religion, while paganism is intentionally able to do so. Think of it as a syncretic approach, integrating a major religion and local religious traditions - as often happened in Africa and SE Asia with Islam and Christianity, for instance. This is an unsteady equilibrium though - as state religion spreads, both players and AIs will likely want to switch to some other religious civic to benefit from it more.

    I basically worked with what was easy to code. Current Centralist constitution, as I feel, is more suited for a somewhat "tall" play, where health and happiness limits matter more, whereas the Federalist one is more suited for a "wide" play, where lots of cities haven't yet hit their growth limits.

    Sure, and it switches to more English-based designs halfway through Medieval era. I didn't want anything looking pre-Norman though, as the Anglo-Saxons felt implausible in the New World setting, at least much more so than the Vikings. I actually had quite a bit of fun designing American knights, as they use heraldry of early American presidents, and some America-specific "Viking" designs incorporate nods to American symbolism as well, such as eagle motifs on their shields. At some point, I might make "Vinland Viking" designs more prominent in the American roster, replacing more regular Viking units.

    I was aware that Vinland is technically more Canada than the US when I made this design decision, but given how there is no separate civ representing Canada, I basically decided to roll all North America from the Mexican border onwards into one civ.

    Yeah, I know, been that way for quite a while too, with "choose desired technology". The problem with that one is I don't even know what it's supposed to do, so I can't really fix it. I guess I'll see about removing it. As for breaking ice, it's as easy as moving the unit on a sea ice tile and pressing a button.

    It does require coast, but yeah, it doesn't really take the size of the water body into account, more or less by design. A nice warm lake will do just as well as a sea.

    Yeah, civics actually take a lot of fine-tuning for AI to consistently use. AIs sometimes have their own strange ideas of what's valuable and what's not, so they have to be guided, and each time a major balance change is introduced in civics, everything has to be re-weighted again.

    I just got rid of tax collectors. Were too micromanagement-heavy anyway.

    Fixed.

    Fixed.

    More or less so. Cottages require at least one food on the tile to be built.

    I personally don't mind it all that much, but sure, why not. Added Bronze Working as a prerequisite - by that time one can have at least some money saved (which, playing with events on, is always a good idea).

    The inflation is there - as others pointed out, it's a misconception that it's been removed. But there is definitely something wonky going on with it sometimes. I will try looking into it.

    I think I might increase the diplomatic opinion weight in the open border decision a bit more. Would lend a feeling of more consistency.

    Yeah, I know and it is annoying. I haven't been able to pinpoint the source of it though.

    The saves from which these screens were taken would actually be quite helpful to have.
     
    f1rpo, fdrpi and Snowygerry like this.
  15. Grassland Farm

    Grassland Farm Warlord

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    AI does flip on/off their desire for open borders for me too, but I assumed it was because of fluctuation in my relationship with them depending on tech lead. Either way I don't mind it too much in itself...
    In general however I have mixed feelings about open borders tech transfer and might play with it off (and tech trading on?) in an experimental next game. It makes revealing civs way too important (and somewhat harms you if you're playing in slight isolation). It also honestly doesn't make sense to me unless with a eurocentric, post-antiquity point of view. For instance China realistically had open borders with almost noone for most of its existence and yet was more technologically advanced than Europe till 1400-1800 (depending on how you look at it).
    And fishing for the most possible AIs that want openborders with you is just not very engaging.
     
  16. sazhdapec

    sazhdapec Warlord

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    The game version is SVN 5315 but I modified the CIV4EventTriggerInfos.xml file to get the event for certain. To get the event just end turn.
     

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  17. Watermelon

    Watermelon Chieftain

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    On Open Borders: You can actually pay for the open Borders by offering additional resources or gold, but don't forget to cancel the resources separately, when the AI cancels the OB. Very often for me at least, when AI allows OB when turning pleased they just want to be paid a bit.

    Sheep Pasture is underpowered. I believe any medieval farm w/o Serfs or Monasteries actually make more food and don't cause Epidemics. Seeing as the English and Flemish had a rather large wool and cloth economy in the medieval era, maybe a :commerce: or :hammers: with Guilds for sheep would be fitting, as this kind of medieval industry is not really represented atm. Or just move some of the +2 :food: from sheep to their pastures.

    Is it intentional that the logging camp for Prime timber is severely weaker than the lumber mill? It provides 1 :commerce: more with sawmills, but lumber mills at the period provide so much more :hammers:. Probably a trade-off, between a potential trade good and more :hammers:, but I don't really get the logic. Maybe logging camps not only +1 :commerce: but also +1 :hammers: with sawmills.

    Totestra doesn't spawn hot springs, hampering the Germans somewhat. Is it possible to change that?

    Spanish Mineria (UI) and Citadel (UB) always felt a bit underwhelming compared to other civs. (esp. since Spain was one of the more powerful empires). Its UI give 1 :commerce: more than precious mines (+1 with Protecionism). There may be around 3 precious mines in a standard sized empire, for a whooping +3 :commerce:. I mean other empires get +1 :food:(!) for their standard farms. Citadel giving additional siege experience, allowing trebuchets to get to additional bombardment damage is nice, but obsoletes very quickly already with bombards, as they can earn their experience with ranged combat. Of course, you have to balance civs with their UU as well and the Spanish Tercio seems pretty strong. But a strong Unit for the early renaissance doesn't at all compensate their weak UI and UB imo. Maybe have their shipyards/citadel give Exploration/Extra Move Promotion to ships? Or have their Caravels gain unrestricted cargo space? (So not only 1 of Explorer/GP/Spies, but any unit like the Armoured Carrack)

    The UB Castrum of the Romans is obsoleted by their distinctive Arsenale. I believe it's intentional that it loses its bonuses, but it should probably still give +1 :) for Despotism. Romans lose this otherwise, and it makes Despotism weaker for them.

    The Romans also lack the classical Shock-type Infantry. It's obvious that role is to be taken by their Marian and Imperial Legionary, but they are both Heavy Infantry and gain +15% cost each time they are build. Very interestingly the %:hammers:-cost is counted separately for them, but Marian Legionaries cannot be built when the Imperial Legionary is unlocked. This ironically gives the Romans less Infantry to work with, as the cost for the same number of Units rises faster and tbh the Legionaries are not really good enough to justify very much higher cost. (Unless of course you game a bit, and build as many Marian Legionaries as you can but never upgrade them, as the Imperial Legionaries start with 0% cost)

    I thought the Chinese UI the Canal unlocked with Civil Engineering was an early solution for irrigation and gaining later on the ability to provide :hammers:/:commerce: for flatland cities. Turns out, it can only spread irrigation with Irrigation Systems. A bit of a bummer, still like it, but is it possible to allow it to spread irrigation earlier?

    Civil Service is unlocked early, and has a special but expensive Colosseum Wonder with slavery (which I happily used last game :D) giving those +1 :) (+1 in city of the wonder) but other than that, is just a medium upkeep +10% for buildings only. In all other cases w/o the means for the Colosseum, it would be plain stupid to switch into it, loosing happiness (and health) at an awfully early date. Civil Service is unlocked very early but really doesn't provide anything at the time (for the cost, compared to TC or RoF), making it a bit unnecessary.
    As civil service probably means low scale government by civil servants and not some random warlord or baron, I think adding a +25% Worker speed would be a fitting and useful little buff, which doesn't really change the balance of Civil Service later in the game (where it is much better). (And maybe if you are feeling particularly generous change the +10% :hammers: to +15% :hammers:, as I still feel the worker speed would not make it a viable alternative to TC, RoF and Plutocracy except for the Civ with Colosseum.)

    Archer Guilds Doctrine and Longbows in general are the AIs absolute favourite. Unfortunately, AIs promoted their units quite well and if the big AI manages to snatch Archery Guilds, in the beginning of the medieval period, their cities become near invincible, as they get Immunity from FS while getting 5-7 FS themselves. This makes warfare extremely tedious for a player and quite impossible for other AIs. Problem is, Longbows become available reallly early, and are only obsolete when Grenadiers enter the battlefield. Longbows in cities shred Fusiliers and becoming invincible from the early medieval to mid-late renaissance is not fun. Please remove the Immunity from FS from Trained Archers 3, give it a strength bonus or sth. Alternatively, make Archery Training available later by having it require Feudal Contract or sth similar. (Although I really prefer the removal of Immunity from FS)

    I almost never use Serfdom or Merchant Princes. In the medieval period it's usually Monarchy, Traditional Customs, Free Commoners, Craft Guilds and Monasticism/OR. I find that many of my cities don't really need too much food, only some and with missionary spamming AIs, Monasticism is usually the way to go - for that +1:food:. Also, to keep up with spending and tech on Immortal/Titan (<- really want to beat that consistently :lol:) I feel the Town-Spamming and +2:commerce: for those (usually 2 Towns for each Farm) AND the lack of garrison forces, which can then be pointed at the enemy from Free Commoners is required. Craft guilds because :hammers: in Cottage Cities is a godsend for building infrastructure and Merchant Princes always provided a meh amount of :commerce:, esp. with the AIs cancelling OBs here and there.

    How do other players feel? Serfdom obviously has a point, but how often do you stick to Serfdom and to Free commoners?
     
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  18. DiMarzio

    DiMarzio Chieftain

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    When can work boats enter ocean?
     
  19. aantia

    aantia Chieftain

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    Wow, I almost never use Free Commoners, Craft Guilds, or Monasticism. The bonus food and xp from Serfdom always seems better to me unless my military is too overstretched to deal with the rebels. Monasticism I occasionally use early on if I'm a Spiritualist leader and want to build some missionaries. I'm not sure I've ever used Craft Guilds at all.
     
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  20. Zap0

    Zap0 Chieftain

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    Throwing in some redundant requirements here:

    Light Infantry requires Cavalry Tactics, but Flintlock Musket already requires Cavalry Tactics.
    Merchantman requires Navigation, but Naval Engineering already requires Navigation.
     
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