Realism Invictus

[Drakarska]

Yup. River equals fresh water, so farms and cottages are viable. Note the tile yields though, as the food output won't be epic unless it's flood plains.
Certain desert civs also have a bonus malus with regards to desert tiles, and there is also a few nifty wonders to help things along. Desert doesn't always equal bad

 

[Snowygerry]

Yes - it's not ideal, but the farms spread the fresh water to another city up North that would otherwise lack it.

A pig, corn and the flood plains also in the first ring were more than enough for settlers/workers and early growth,

the desert cottages absorb all that food and when they mature turn it into gold, it is playable

 

[HannibalBarka]

bug on SVN version 5337. hit end and it craches

 

[A1sketch]

Hey, love the mod I think it's by far the greatest civ gameplay. I just wanted to report a couple of things : the sea turns black on the large earth map scenario and, up to now (dozens of played games ), it always end up with CTDs (around early industrial era). I don't think my computer specs are an issue since it's pretty powerful. I play on 3.57.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Just finished a major effort to optimise models in the mod - to give you the idea of the scope, with no units added/removed, the size difference of all unit nifs in the previous SVN compared to the current one is 382 MB to 274 MB. Hopefully, stuff like this will also lead to a better memory footprint (though I am aware that textures are probably the worse culprit). Anyway, all SVN users are urged to report anything weird/broken they see - I was very thorough when fixing stuff that got broken in process (and there was A LOT), but some stuff might have slipped through. Shouldn't be any CTDs, but weird/glitchy animations and/or missing unit pieces might be observed - and should be reported for a quick and easy fix.

OK, so the forum decided I can't quote any posts for some reason, so here I am just answering stuff:

1) Yes, raging barbarians are off by default in several latest versions, but used to be on by default before, so your particular setting is likely dependent on when you got into RI in the first place. Certainly playable either way, but a rather dramatic difference - people should make their own mind on this one.
2) Farms in scrubland were not intentional, but were reported a while ago, and I decided to keep them this way - that's actually a neat gimmick that doesn't lead to anything gamebreaking (farmed desert is still worse than farmed grasslands/plains)
3) I'll look at the save.
4) The black thing / CTDs is the Civ 4 engine reaching the limit of what it can do - play smaller maps and/or use the process lasso hint that can be found in the first post of this thread.

 

[Snowygerry]

(...)
1) Yes, raging barbarians are off by default in several latest versions, but used to be on by default before, so your particular setting is likely dependent on when you got into RI in the first place. Certainly playable either way, but a rather dramatic difference - people should make their own mind on this one.

I imagine it would depend on other settings, RI maps are by default pretty densely populated, 9 civs for a normal map iirc.,

that leaves little room for barbs to develop - but if you remove a few starting civs, and with the the "barb civ" option on, it could lead to a barbarian superstate,

I'll try it my next game

 

[TheBirdMan]

Status from me after using the latest version:

NO black textures at all. I have played the game for 23 days by now (plus 7 days for "making" my map and change what-ever I wanted in the XML), loading the game 1 to 3 times each day


After approx. 2.200 turns I reached industrial techs and got a CTD from time to time. Now nearly 450 turns later with modern techs, I get more CTDs - often 2-3 a day. But considering I'm playing on a 160*100 tiles map with 40% land, with 4 active nations and 223 cities, with savegames now close to 3,8Mb..... it's really nothing to worry about. Specially after I changed a little in the CivilizationIV.ini file so the game now autosave every turn and keep the latest 20 autosaves.......

I have 619 turns left now, the savegame filesize adds 0,5Kb maybe less each turn, so I guess and hope I can play to "The End".

 

[AspiringScholar]

Hey all, just reporting back again to say that I'm still black texture free and Walter's fix last month seems to have effectively remedied the issue for me!

I am about 50 hours into a campaign which I've all but lost but decided to play through to the end, and unfortunately, it looks like I'm going to get conquered outright. Being endlessly DoWd and backstabbed by former allies made almost the entire game feel like a war of attrition. Marginal gains and Phyrric victories avail the long term not, and the AI has simply not given me a break. Time to go down from monarch and not play terra for a while.

A few more quick questions if I may:

- I'm undecided if I like tech trading being disabled, but does anyone know if turning it back on and then disabling the research sharing system has any bearing on AI behavior with respect to signing and cancelling open border agreements? I seem to be missing the strategic dynamic for this, because it seems near-always to be advantageous to the player to sign these whenever possible, and the AI readily cancels them anyway. It's kind of annoying too, how much this causes major shifts in your trade income, seemingly not predicated by anything except an arbitrary timer. So if you revert to vanilla mechanics with respect to tech trading, does the AI still cancel open border agreements with the same logic that it does under the mod's rules?

- Could someone reference the specific mechanic for number of cities on research cost (and does disabling the research sharing as mentioned above affect this)? This actually seems to be really huge. So huge, in fact, that it makes losing cities in war potentially a boon for the player if they're not mature enough, and also is critical for planning the eventual profitability of them. I'd like to weigh the cost/benefit analysis of tall vs. wide with actual factors applied to the mechanic, if possible, but so far it seems simply that each city gained or lost results in a parabolic shift up or down on maintenance.

- Does "AI playing to win" give it any consciousness of other AIs' own proximity to victory? It always seems like when an AI civ is nearing a culture victory, the onus is on the player to attack them and prevent this, and the other AIs don't care; usually this means fighting off some other immediate threat while also shouldering the burden of preventing a third party's cultural win. Theoretically if the AI is "playing to win" it should know when another civ is going to and try to stop this. In my current game, Egypt is pretty close to winning culture, but no one is attacking them or apparently trying to stop it. (Also, would enabling this feature be considered a bump upward on difficulty?)

I hope none of this sounds like a complaint, as I'm really enjoying this mod! Many thanks again.

 

[Zap0]

The SVN server has been horribly unstable for me for the past few weeks. I've got a few broken models, but I presume that's just because I've got a mushed up install since it won't update properly.

It usually won't let me connect (Server unexpectedly closed the connection), but sometimes I get HTTP 413 Requested Entity too large. The other day I was able to get it to update a few files, but the connection always died after a minute. It *says* I have the latest revision, but I can't find a way to verify the integrity of the local copy, so I don't trust it.

Anybody have a similar experience?

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

- I'm undecided if I like tech trading being disabled, but does anyone know if turning it back on and then disabling the research sharing system has any bearing on AI behavior with respect to signing and cancelling open border agreements? I seem to be missing the strategic dynamic for this, because it seems near-always to be advantageous to the player to sign these whenever possible, and the AI readily cancels them anyway. It's kind of annoying too, how much this causes major shifts in your trade income, seemingly not predicated by anything except an arbitrary timer. So if you revert to vanilla mechanics with respect to tech trading, does the AI still cancel open border agreements with the same logic that it does under the mod's rules?

While I didn't try turning tech trading on, logically it shouldn't impact that. AI is actually "smart" about signing open borders, in that it actually evaluates their utility (unlike in vanilla where the decision was based purely on relations), but much too quick to react to situational changes. I'll try making its logic even more "sticky" (already tweaked some stuff to that end before).

- Could someone reference the specific mechanic for number of cities on research cost (and does disabling the research sharing as mentioned above affect this)? This actually seems to be really huge. So huge, in fact, that it makes losing cities in war potentially a boon for the player if they're not mature enough, and also is critical for planning the eventual profitability of them. I'd like to weigh the cost/benefit analysis of tall vs. wide with actual factors applied to the mechanic, if possible, but so far it seems simply that each city gained or lost results in a parabolic shift up or down on maintenance.

Very simple - tech costs are increased by a fixed percentage per each city you have. The actual increase varies between map sizes, and can be checked in map size section in pedia. A word of advice when evaluating: remember that due to Civ 4 resource mechanics, additional cities often offer returns beyond what they generate themselves, as a reasonably well-placed city should allow your other cities to grow more as well.

- Does "AI playing to win" give it any consciousness of other AIs' own proximity to victory? It always seems like when an AI civ is nearing a culture victory, the onus is on the player to attack them and prevent this, and the other AIs don't care; usually this means fighting off some other immediate threat while also shouldering the burden of preventing a third party's cultural win. Theoretically if the AI is "playing to win" it should know when another civ is going to and try to stop this. In my current game, Egypt is pretty close to winning culture, but no one is attacking them or apparently trying to stop it. (Also, would enabling this feature be considered a bump upward on difficulty?)

No, this purely concerns AIs choosing their own preferred victory path and sticking to it.

The SVN server has been horribly unstable for me for the past few weeks. I've got a few broken models, but I presume that's just because I've got a mushed up install since it won't update properly.

It usually won't let me connect (Server unexpectedly closed the connection), but sometimes I get HTTP 413 Requested Entity too large. The other day I was able to get it to update a few files, but the connection always died after a minute. It *says* I have the latest revision, but I can't find a way to verify the integrity of the local copy, so I don't trust it.

Anybody have a similar experience?

I did experience stuff like that before with Sourceforge, but not recently. Since Sourceforge utilizes lots of mirrors, particular ones that are closest to you might be experiencing trouble, but I don't know how to force different servers using SVN. Anyway, try running Cleanup then Update again. And don't hesitate to report stuff you see as broken even if it turns out to be false alarm - it's no trouble for me to go check and much better than missing broken stuff.

 

[aantia]

Something I've been wondering for ages: why do industrial buildings increase epidemic chance? E.g. the bronzesmith gives 0.5% epidemic chance.
Giving makes perfect sense, since they're generally polluting and so you'd get local increases in tuberculosis and cancer and so on, but I don't see how they logically increase the chances of a plague ravaging your empire.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Something I've been wondering for ages: why do industrial buildings increase epidemic chance? E.g. the bronzesmith gives 0.5% epidemic chance.
Giving makes perfect sense, since they're generally polluting and so you'd get local increases in tuberculosis and cancer and so on, but I don't see how they logically increase the chances of a plague ravaging your empire.

Lots of people working together, usually in really tight quarters, and for most of human history both malnutritioned and subjected to harmful substances, neither of which does wonders for the immune system. A helpful way of thinking about it is that a big factory "concentrates" the people that would otherwise have stayed in the countryside into a much higher population density - which obviously increases the chances for an epidemic.

 

[arythm1a]

I've recently returned version 3.57 after a few months' absence. I love almost everything new, but the era tech penalty if you're too far ahead of the game era needs to be toggleable, imo. In the games ive played ive always reached the classical era with 50% penalty, and the medieval era with 100% penalty. Imo, being ahead in research is already penalised through feeding others via open border agreements, and this is just too far. I find myself with all my cities just spamming research, as I have nothing to build due to few new buildings unlocking due to the penalty. What is everyone else's experiences here?

Reaching the medieval era in BC was unfitting, but this is basically game-breaking to me.

 

[sazhdapec]

I've recently returned version 3.57 after a few months' absence. I love almost everything new, but the era tech penalty if you're too far ahead of the game era needs to be toggleable, imo. In the games ive played ive always reached the classical era with 50% penalty, and the medieval era with 100% penalty. Imo, being ahead in research is already penalised through feeding others via open border agreements, and this is just too far. I find myself with all my cities just spamming research, as I have nothing to build due to few new buildings unlocking due to the penalty. What is everyone else's experiences here?

Reaching the medieval era in BC was unfitting, but this is basically game-breaking to me.

You're obviously playing a lower difficulty than your skill allows. Try increasing the difficulty and you'll be surprised how you suddenly don't really need building research and pleased that it's actually possible to catch runaway civs.

 

[Snowygerry]

It bothered me at first, now I hardly notice it, but it is true I research at 50-100 % constantly - and so do the most advanced AIs in my games.

It seems to achieve its intended purpose, as above - the most advanced civ no longer drags the others through the eras.

And units roughly fit the historical date, which was also an intended effect iirc.

 

[TheBirdMan]

Sazhdapec already wrote what I had in mind...... You're ready for bigger challenges ..

I'm playing on Monarch and I'm surely not ahead of many AIs the first many eras. I seldom catch up before late renaissance/early industrial eras.

 

[arythm1a]

You're obviously playing a lower difficulty than your skill allows. Try increasing the difficulty and you'll be surprised how you suddenly don't really need building research and pleased that it's actually possible to catch runaway civs.

I thank you for your belief in my abilities! However, I currently play on Monarch and anything above that turns into too much of a slog. Besides, nowadays I mostly play games where I control all the civs myself, anyway.
I just played through a game where I was involved in a lot of early wars, and was basically below 30% science throughout most of the game. Nevertheless, I was able to start researching medieval era techs by 396 BC, and all techs were at +100% science. This feature seems to be popular with you guys, but I would really appreciate being able to toggle it off.

 

[aantia]

Lots of people working together, usually in really tight quarters, and for most of human history both malnutritioned and subjected to harmful substances, neither of which does wonders for the immune system. A helpful way of thinking about it is that a big factory "concentrates" the people that would otherwise have stayed in the countryside into a much higher population density - which obviously increases the chances for an epidemic.

I see, thanks.
I'd personally still think it would make more sense for them to just give unhealthiness, and so to increase epidemic chance indirectly via excess unhealthiness. After all, unhealthiness is what the rest of the game uses to represent the effects of both concentrated populations and harmful substances.
Not that I'm demanding any changes, I can see what the logic is now and certainly you'd need to rebalance a lots of things (e.g. food production) if you took my view and there was an assumption that large cities would have excess unhealthiness.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

bug on SVN version 5337. hit end and it craches

Doesn't crash for me (nor when auto-run for several hundred turns afterwards). Did you modify your local copy in any way?

I've recently returned version 3.57 after a few months' absence. I love almost everything new, but the era tech penalty if you're too far ahead of the game era needs to be toggleable, imo. In the games ive played ive always reached the classical era with 50% penalty, and the medieval era with 100% penalty. Imo, being ahead in research is already penalised through feeding others via open border agreements, and this is just too far. I find myself with all my cities just spamming research, as I have nothing to build due to few new buildings unlocking due to the penalty. What is everyone else's experiences here?

Reaching the medieval era in BC was unfitting, but this is basically game-breaking to me.

What's so game-breaking about a different research pace? Someone who's ahead in research is still ahead, just less so.

Anyway, it's unlikely I'll make it toggleable simply because it'll take a lot of figuring out at this point and I'm lazy.
But you can have this file that should turn it off for you (including in ongoing games). Remember to back original up just in case.

What settings do you usually play at? Perhaps it is a balance issue of a particular settings combo.

I see, thanks.
I'd personally still think it would make more sense for them to just give unhealthiness, and so to increase epidemic chance indirectly via excess unhealthiness. After all, unhealthiness is what the rest of the game uses to represent the effects of both concentrated populations and harmful substances.
Not that I'm demanding any changes, I can see what the logic is now and certainly you'd need to rebalance a lots of things (e.g. food production) if you took my view and there was an assumption that large cities would have excess unhealthiness.

Were I building the pandemic system from the ground up at this time, there is probably a lot that would have been implemented differently. But yeah, I don't feel there's a major rebalance in RI's future at this point. I'm pretty content at just prettifying things most of the time now...

 

[arythm1a]

What's so game-breaking about a different research pace? Someone who's ahead in research is still ahead, just less so.

Anyway, it's unlikely I'll make it toggleable simply because it'll take a lot of figuring out at this point and I'm lazy.
But you can have this file that should turn it off for you (including in ongoing games). Remember to back original up just in case.

What settings do you usually play at? Perhaps it is a balance issue of a particular settings combo.

To me, it strongly devalues science and commerce overall, since hitting the research malus is inefficient. I just felt like it slowed the game down too much for my taste, and left me with too little to do each round, and made differences in research too small. I usually play on either x1,5 or x2.0 speed, maybe thats the reason? Other settings are large map, 12-15 civs, tech trading off of course.

Thanks for the file, much appreciated. Where do I apply it - Beyond the Sword/Mods/Realism Invictus/Assets/Python?

Secondly, two unrelated things - what happened to the big and small script? Its selectable via the randomscript, but why did it disappear? And why does Ahmad Shah Durrani found a city called Dortmund? Google must have laughed at me as I typed in "Dortmund Afghanistan" .