Realism Invictus

Do I just need more units? (I have roughly 10 city attack units to their 5 longbowmen, but again, I don't seem to deal any significant damage regardless.)
Or do I need higher tech to break through?
When you attack, you must not forget the Aid_system, where different type of troops supports other types in battle.

If you can, try to make attacks with smaller stacks of say 3-4 different troops - fx 1 or 2 unit(s) with City_assult promotion, 1 or 2 unit(s) with a "+xx% vs archers" and 1 or 2 mounted unit(s) able to make some "Collateral Damage" - then make your attack. If you loose, replace the lost unit and attack again. If you win, replace the wounded unit with a fresh. Never attack with single units only, seldom (but not never) attack with a stack of same type of units. Never include units with no City_Attack support in the attack. *)

You will proberly need much more troops to do above.....

It's dang hard to take cities, that are defended with (any kind) of archers until you get access to the bombard. Specially if some of the defending archers has the City_defense, Drill or Hill promotions (last only if the city are placed on a hilltop of course).


*) Edit: That is - if you after your "normal" attacks have your enemy down on the knees - then it might be a good decision to give it a try anyway...........
 
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Fairly new player here, playing on monarch/huge/terra. I'm in the late medieval period, and having trouble breaking through longbowmen in hilled cities. I have crusaders, foot knights, and man-at-arms with city attack upgrades, and knights with retreat upgrades, but none of these seem to deal any significant damage to the longbows (even with city defenses at 0%).

Is this just a feature of the era, that longbowmen are exceptionally good at defending cities?
Do I just need more units? (I have roughly 10 city attack units to their 5 longbowmen, but again, I don't seem to deal any significant damage regardless.)
Or do I need higher tech to break through?
yes. its era feature, attack is weakest compered to defence in medival, later line infantry only have like 10% city bonus defence, longbowman otoh have significant city and hills defence bonuses
 
Fairly new player here, playing on monarch/huge/terra. I'm in the late medieval period, and having trouble breaking through longbowmen in hilled cities. I have crusaders, foot knights, and man-at-arms with city attack upgrades, and knights with retreat upgrades, but none of these seem to deal any significant damage to the longbows (even with city defenses at 0%).

Is this just a feature of the era, that longbowmen are exceptionally good at defending cities?
Do I just need more units? (I have roughly 10 city attack units to their 5 longbowmen, but again, I don't seem to deal any significant damage regardless.)
Or do I need higher tech to break through?
I agree with others that longbows are tough to beat, especially with any sort of bonus such as hills or a protective leader. You didn't mention bombards - hopefully you have gunpowder and are making use of the ranged attack so you never fight a longbow at full health. It also may be worthwhile to give some suicidal units (arquebusiers or your own archers) the drill promotion line. Their combat odds will be horrible but their first strikes should at least wound the longbows so that your city raiders can have better odds. Nothing is more frustrating than sending in a man-at-arms only to watch him die without even getting to fight back.

Friendly heads up that the next tier, flintlock musket, is a huge step forward and nigh impossible to beat with outdated units. Don't let your precious knights meet line infantry!
 
Yep, makes sense. I'm on the cusp of gunpowder but I don't have it yet, and haven't played enough to know the changes that come about as a result.

My attack is a counteroffensive after I wiped an invading doomstack. So I thought I'd be able to roll right into a border city, but from what you guys said these longbowmen are definitely too strong for that with my current troops haha.

I took a good peace deal with them and am going to focus on repairing my economy and research after the war efforts before I try again.

Thanks for the help!
 
Fairly new player here, playing on monarch/huge/terra. I'm in the late medieval period, and having trouble breaking through longbowmen in hilled cities. I have crusaders, foot knights, and man-at-arms with city attack upgrades, and knights with retreat upgrades, but none of these seem to deal any significant damage to the longbows (even with city defenses at 0%).

That is a relatable feeling! :lol:

They're almost impossible to root out of cities in the medieval era pre-gunpowder, especially (as ThirdOrbital said, if they are receiving extraneous bonuses like being on a hill, protective, etc.) It really doesn't show through conspicuously on paper just how effective they are as city defenders, especially when the era is otherwise replete with so many cool and various other units that look powerful and tempting to use as invaders.

Is this just a feature of the era, that longbowmen are exceptionally good at defending cities?

Yes lol, and this is one reason why they're one of a few unit classes that not every civ gets. (All of the unit rosters are nominally supposed to be balanced, but longbows on their own are certainly strongly biased towards the defensive.) I even made the case that they were OP in the pre-3.6 subversion and they were consequently nerfed to become more expensive as of the current version.

Do I just need more units? (I have roughly 10 city attack units to their 5 longbowmen, but again, I don't seem to deal any significant damage regardless.)

That does sound very insufficient unfortunately. A 2:1 ratio here even with premium city attackers is very unlikely to cut it, unless it's a flatland city or they're injured or something. The above suggestions look sound to me, though your best option is most likely to wait until another era if you're planning conquest. If you do find yourself in a situation where some other factor compels you to conquer longbow defended cities in the medieval era, I would personally go with something like a two-pronged attack: I'd build a huge stack of poor quality units (mostly levies, which aren't altogether bad) next to a medium one with premium city attackers, and attack with the former in spite of poor odds just to soften them some before following through with the good units when your odds won't be likely non-existent. The caveat here is that there is obviously a big sunk-cost factor at play and you will want to make sure that you do commit to fighting completely with the second one, since you will end up feeding them an enormous amount of XP with your initial blow otherwise, since you intended to lose the first stack entirely, meaning more promotions to the longbows and the opportunity to heal and become even harder to deal with later while losing your own investment if you don't follow through same turn.

It is important to note, though, that gunpowder itself is a medieval technology, and bombards confer a lot of immediate utility in that they are the first standard unit to inflict cost-free damage from ranged attacks. Even just a little bit of strength reduction can tip the scale of combat odds quite significantly, and take them from nearly untouchable to something you can overcome much more feasibly if albeit with difficulty.

Or do I need higher tech to break through?

As you keep playing and get a feel for the tech tree and unit rosters, you'll see an ebb and flow of what sort of warfare is most effective at any given time. In the medieval era, conquest itself favors the defensive but becomes a lot more volatile in the field. Longbows are still somewhat meaningfully effective against even line infantry (especially well-promoted ones), but only as city defenders. Their counter in the renaissance (the light infantry) does get a malus against city attack, the only useful role of the longbow that late in the game.
 
in the late medieval period, and having trouble breaking through longbowmen in hilled cities.

A mix of non-attacking support units that give max first-strike Aid to the stack (Ranged, Recon, Siege), and then however many City Raider upgraded sacrificial Levies you need to damage all of the units in the city, followed up with as many City Raider upgraded Men-At-Arms you need to mop up the damaged units and take the city. Either way, how many of those Levies and Men-At-Arms you'll need greatly depends on how badly the RNG goes against you in the assault. From experience I can tell you however many city raider units you THINK you'll need, you should bring more than that. :lol:

Or wait for Renaissance units, then you can take hill cities with fewer units, and less cost, without crashing your economy in the process.

Whatever option seems more fun to you. :thumbsup:
 
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Fairly new player here, playing on monarch/huge/terra. I'm in the late medieval period, and having trouble breaking through longbowmen in hilled cities. I have crusaders, foot knights, and man-at-arms with city attack upgrades, and knights with retreat upgrades, but none of these seem to deal any significant damage to the longbows (even with city defenses at 0%).

Is this just a feature of the era, that longbowmen are exceptionally good at defending cities?
Do I just need more units? (I have roughly 10 city attack units to their 5 longbowmen, but again, I don't seem to deal any significant damage regardless.)
Or do I need higher tech to break through?
In vanilla civ4 people often don't attack during the medieval era because of how powerful longbowmen are, and in RI its no different. However, there are more work arounds in RI which make medieval warfare not only possible, but lucrative too;

Conqueror trait with traditional customs, a barracks and militancy leads to getting city raider 3 melee units out of the gate.

Bombards also inflict damage on longbows for free so they will get softened up before you attack with your men at arms.


Cavalry stacks are great to do collateral damage and then attack the city; obviously they're not abusable like catapults in vanilla civ4, but building cavalry is a very important part of warfare in RI; not only are they great defenders in the field, they provide important collateral damage against city defenders and they can flank attack.

Medieval warfare in RI is lucrative because of how much earlier you can snowball if it goes right; how many counters you have in that period; and how you can usually tech yourself into a military advantage more easily if the ai doesn't get longbowmen fast. The ideal play is to beeline military engineering and city rights before the AI gets longbowmen, and then invade them while they still have the 4 str composite bowmen.


Or even better, just don't invade civs that get longbows, invade the ones with only crossbows(so civs like Spain, South China,Greece and Rome), cuz then you'll have a much easier time.


Or if you bide your time until the Renaissance where you get light infantry, you can pretty much steamroll over the longbowmen.
 
additional hint: create 1 or 2 columns to pillage the land around the city; you will cut off its access to strategic resources and luxuries, cause starving and unhappiness. This will make life difficult for the defender.
Furthermore, it is common for such columns to serve as bait, causing some units to leave the city to attack you (making it easier to attack later). ;-)
 
I know I have not updated my "Spinn-Off" thread https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/r-i-my-personal-spin-off.683863/ for 4-5 weeks now, but that isn't the same as I have abandoned this.

With a little bit of luck I think I have a - vell not always beautiful but - fine and acceptable solutions on most of my wishes. Current game should - again with some luck - be my last testgame.

Except for access to water - which is the far most important to be close to - access to bonusresources is alfa-and-omega. You need them as they are consumed. Even GreatWonders need them now in my games.

Spoiler The Pyramids in uMgungundlovu :

Civ4ScreenShot0222.JPG



Further you might notice, that all bonus are placed on hill-tops. That is "only" done so for visual reasons, because I hate to see the AI use "my" canals (the former "Chinese Canal") to claim a bonus outside a city limit (the same as you will see the AI do with Forts on your own games).
 
Now what can this be called - except really bad luck.....

Spoiler The Death of the Waves. :

Civ4ScreenShot0223.JPG

Civ4ScreenShot0224.JPG


But just for you info: This is the kind of "stuff" I like with my SpinnOff. No mercy - it has to be difficult to survive (and expand if possible).


Added to above: I "hate" those Bantu's. A nation upgraded from an inferior and insignificant small nation (otherCivs) to a fully finished nation :aargh::aargh:.
Spoiler This means war :

Civ4ScreenShot0225.JPG



Hmmm, actually I'm looking forward to trying to lead them at a later date.....
 
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You created a random event to destroy an entire city? Man that sounds dreadful to me but to each their own! I love seeing all of your customizations even if they aren't always something I would like.
 
I have tried different game settings, but every time AI is very reluctant to invest in science in 20th century. They stay almost all time at 0% research rate. By year 2000 there are no nukes, no UN etc. Every single game…
 
:blush:Shocking news - at least for me :blush:- but probably also for others who make small personal modifications....

If any tries to activate workers from the OtherCivs category, please pay attention to their worker unit. Where worker units in general have no prereq in techs, those units all have one. Could be Bronze_Working (Siberia) or Irrigation (Bantu, American_Native_ (something more), Polynesia, Khmer or Pacific (hope I didn't forgot any)...

Now how the h.ck my neighbor the Bantu-Nation has been able to develop to such a high level without having workers (at least until now) - it's just too incredible..... because it is not only in this game, but also in several of my previous test games....

I am not sure I would have observed it, if I did not this time have the Bantu-tribe as my immediate neighbor and worst opponent - but it surprised me that there apparently wasn't any improvement to be seen anywhere in the "original" Bantu-land. (see screenshots), but only near cities, they have conquered.

Spoiler Missing improvements :

Civ4ScreenShot0233.JPG

Civ4ScreenShot0236.JPG



Well, now this is corrected and as you can see - the Bantu's are training their first worker in this game.......
 
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For anyone with mp experience, we've been having problems where one person's firewall prevents other players from joining. The way we avoided this was by making that person join last.

Now I recently bought a new laptop and have been getting the same issue, does anyone know why?
 
For anyone with mp experience, we've been having problems where one person's firewall prevents other players from joining. The way we avoided this was by making that person join last.

Now I recently bought a new laptop and have been getting the same issue, does anyone know why?
Is it a Windows computer? Windows Firewall might be turned on. I would be surprised if Macs didn't have something similar.
 
I have tested it again - only Domination and Diplomatic victory conditions, but without AI plays to win. AI behaves normally, it doesn’t razes all the cities.
So the problem appears only when Cultural and Space victory conditions are off, while AI plays to win is on. In this case AI razes almost all captured cities.
Thank you so much for rigorously testing this - I wouldn't have caught the actual bug causing it without you. Was a fun one to track down: apparently, when AI plays to win, upon capturing a city, it evaluates if their enemy has enough cities almost at the cultural victory threshold ("enough" normally means 3 cities of "legendary" culture for a cultural victory). If there are, they always raze the city in question, as their opponent is obviously on the verge of cultural victory. Which makes sense.

Only the condition in question didn't test if the cultural victory was actually enabled. And if it was disabled, the number of high-cultured cities needed for a cultural victory was 0, and the required cultural level was "none". Which means the opponent in question always had more cities with some culture than 0 and was always "on the verge of a cultural victory", even though it was disabled. Which meant all the cities got razed. In truth this also affected the games without "AI plays to win", but to a much smaller degree, as it assigned a weight instead of a boolean "raze no matter what".
 
Thank you so much for rigorously testing this - I wouldn't have caught the actual bug causing it without you. Was a fun one to track down: apparently, when AI plays to win, upon capturing a city, it evaluates if their enemy has enough cities almost at the cultural victory threshold ("enough" normally means 3 cities of "legendary" culture for a cultural victory). If there are, they always raze the city in question, as their opponent is obviously on the verge of cultural victory. Which makes sense.

Only the condition in question didn't test if the cultural victory was actually enabled. And if it was disabled, the number of high-cultured cities needed for a cultural victory was 0, and the required cultural level was "none". Which means the opponent in question always had more cities with some culture than 0 and was always "on the verge of a cultural victory", even though it was disabled. Which meant all the cities got razed. In truth this also affected the games without "AI plays to win", but to a much smaller degree, as it assigned a weight instead of a boolean "raze no matter what".
Wow! Such an interesting results of tracking 🙂
Yes, I have also observed in my latest game that if cultural victory is off, it affects city razing rate even without “AI plays to win”.
I would like to play with cultural victory condition ON, but it is too easy, in my opinion it comes too early (I mean, legendary culture level is achieved way too early than it should be).
 
Wow! Such an interesting results of tracking 🙂
Yes, I have also observed in my latest game that if cultural victory is off, it affects city razing rate even without “AI plays to win”.
I would like to play with cultural victory condition ON, but it is too easy, in my opinion it comes too early (I mean, legendary culture level is achieved way too early than it should be).
I bumped the threshold for legendary status by 25% in my own single player games (and that's what several fellow players have all decided to do for our current MP session) since I would encounter passive legendary cities (usually held by warmongering civs who were in no way pursuing that playstyle in the first place) well before any other victory condition was feasible. (I think this was CastleRum's idea originally, but I made that change as well after reading his case for it.) After several games with this fix, it seems balanced and cultural victory tends to be attainable at the same time as the other victories in the late game, provided nobody has runaway with domination already.
 
I bumped the threshold for legendary status by 25% in my own single player games (and that's what several fellow players have all decided to do for our current MP session) since I would encounter passive legendary cities (usually held by warmongering civs who were in no way pursuing that playstyle in the first place) well before any other victory condition was feasible. (I think this was CastleRum's idea originally, but I made that change as well after reading his case for it.) After several games with this fix, it seems balanced and cultural victory tends to be attainable at the same time as the other victories in the late game, provided nobody has runaway with domination already.
Great! Actually I have read about this modification somewhere and I thought that it is already part of RI. Could you please give me a link where I can read how to make this modification for myself?
 
Could you please give me a link where I can read how to make this modification for myself?
You can change the value here: ....\Assets\XML\GameInfo\CIV4CultureLevelInfo.xml, last section "CULTURELEVEL_LEGENDARY".
 
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