Realism Invictus

“Oh no, ottomans arrive! quick, it's time to moor on that hill 300 meters above the ground!”
hehe.

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also i still can build drydocks on lakes
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“Oh no, ottomans arrive! quick, it's time to moor on that hill 300 meters above the ground!”
hehe.
Don't you pin that on me! That's vanilla!
also i still can build drydocks on lakes
IIRC the tile threshold is 4 water tiles. After all, a 5-tile lake is almost a sea, and you might need to have a couple of dreadnoughts patrolling it. ;)
 
Fair point. My personal preference would be to compensate by reducing the number of IG years passing for each turn at the beginning of the game, and therefore adding a bit of turn to the total that a game takes.

But the fact that I never managed to finish a game even after spending hundreds of hours in your mod probably tells that it's long enough as it is :lol:
This would make more sense to me. Dropping the amount of years that pass per turn to help align the Era/Age to the current time period would solve the problem without reducing the total turns spent in the Ancient and Classical Era's
 
This would make more sense to me. Dropping the amount of years that pass per turn to help align the Era/Age to the current time period would solve the problem without reducing the total turns spent in the Ancient and Classical Era's
As has been stated multiple times, the current intention is not to make the early game shorter, it's to shift things around so that the length of the ancient and classical eras give you more time with proper empire building and interaction with other civs. This will give you more time to get use out of the unique and national units/wonders of the early game, not less.

I already commented that I didn't really like the early tech balance myself and would make the ancient era somewhat cheaper, while classical somewhat more expensive.
(emphasis mine).
 
As has been stated multiple times, the current intention is not to make the early game shorter, it's to shift things around so that the length of the ancient and classical eras give you more time with proper empire building and interaction with other civs. This will give you more time to get use out of the unique and national units/wonders of the early game, not less.

Had a game a few days ago where I went after a bunch of "ressources allowing" tech and ended up discovering woodworking pretty late, then immediatly having to go with bronze working (for hapiness reasons).
My first Militia was switch mid-production into a Spearmen. I have to admit it was a bit silly.

I guess having faster research for the 2 rows of tech and compensating by upgrading the time needed for the next ones could be a solution.
I think my main point of concern are cottages : you can't do much except going farm & mine at the beginning, and the idea that having even more of a gap before being able to build cottages sits badly with me.

So perhaps, if I had to put a turning point, would I choose to include the third row in the "easy/fast to obtain" tech, and having the big stop at the 4th row (making the strong units from Bronze Working a goal to achieve. It's also the row for religion-enabling tech, another kind of early goal).

But that poses 2 new problems :
- Will the AI understand that it's supposed to research the 3 first row first and "wait a bit" before trying to jump after that ? I never paid attention to it before, but how's the AI understanding the "ahead of time" penalty (which would work the same way) ?
- That doesn't changes anything about what Walter said on the Bronze Age tech being available until after it ended IRL.

Not an easy problem to solve !
 
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Fair point. My personnal preference would be to compensate by reducing the number of IG years passing for each turn at the beginning of the game, and therefore adding a bit of turn to the total that a game takes.
I mean, what you're suggesting is simply increasing the total amount of turns, which is what one is already able to do if one so wants, by selecting a slower game speed. That's not really a solution to anything.
But that poses 2 new problems :
- Will the AI understand that it's supposed to research the 3 first row first and "wait a bit" before trying to jump after that ? I never paid attention to it before, but how's the AI understanding the "ahead of time" penalty (which would work the same way) ?
AI tech evaluation routines are some of the most detailed pieces of AI-related code - which is where one of the 3.7 AI adjustments came from, injecting more personality into AI choices. If anything, AI is too good at evaluating techs. :lol:
- That doesn't changes anything about what Walter said on the Bronze Age tech being available until after it ended IRL.
It is not an issue in and of itself, but rather an illustration that current tech progress is skewed. Anyway, let me cook - I have a rough outline of changes (more than just the first couple of columns), let's see where they land us.
 
I mean, what you're suggesting is simply increasing the total amount of turns, which is what one is already able to do if one so wants, by selecting a slower game speed. That's not really a solution to anything.
Not increasing the amount of turns, but decreasing the amount of years that pass per turn. i.e. instead of 20 years passing per turn in Ancient Era it's 10 or 15. That way The Bronze Age should show up around 1500BCE.
 
I have two other rookie questions in the midst of your ancient era duration debate :

- is the RI threshold for legendary city at 480,000 culture?
- is the culture victory condition triggered as one civ controls 3 legendary cities?
 
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- is the RI threshold for legendary city at 480,000 culture?
It depends on the chosen game speed, but indeed it's 480000 on the default one. You can check all of them in /Assets/XML/GameInfo/CIV4CultureLevelInfo.xml and even modify it (I always increase the legendary threshold quite a bit, so cultural victory doesn't trigger so fast compared to other victories).

- is the culture victory condition triggered as one civ controls 3 legendary cities?
I think so.
 
Not increasing the amount of turns, but decreasing the amount of years that pass per turn. i.e. instead of 20 years passing per turn in Ancient Era it's 10 or 15. That way The Bronze Age should show up around 1500BCE.
Unless one wants the game to end on a different year, decreasing the amount of years per turn means increasing the total amount of turns.
 
Don't you pin that on me! That's vanilla!
I'm just laughing from my imagination of town defenders who let the ship go to hide in the abbey`s hill

AI is too good at evaluating techs. :lol:
i can confirm it

It depends on the chosen game speed, but indeed it's 480000 on the default one. You can check all of them in /Assets/XML/GameInfo/CIV4CultureLevelInfo.xml and even modify it (I always increase the legendary threshold quite a bit, so cultural victory doesn't trigger so fast compared to other victories).
from my tests adding 5-7% on every level of cultural development (45 on first stage,550 on second and so on to 505 000 on legendary) fit almost perfectly and is balanced between cultural victory (if you in end-game put all on culture) and space victory
when you put 10% more :culture: , you rather win on space victory, if you put less then 5% :culture: you win cultural victory faster
(on "realism" game speed ofc but i think the same will be work on faster / slower games)

I usually had 20-30 turns difference between cultural/space victory playing with the style I described
 
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I'm just laughing from my imagination of town defenders who let the ship go to hide in the abbey`s hill
If it's a Celt Fortified Monestary you have there uphill - then it makes sense.....


Edit 10:28: I see it is - and as such monestaries acts as cities, then you can use it as a naval-base if you like. Or airport later on.
 
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Edit 10:28: I see it is - and as such monestaries acts as cities, then you can use it as a naval-base if you like. Or airport later on.
that what i`m talking about - imagine marine aircraft carrier (300 metres long) who stationate in abbey, with all these planes, soliders etc

also i notice that militaristic or fanatical leaders (stephen the saint on pic related) push inclusivity in their countries in XIX century. In long term they risk civil war
dont know do it was intentional..
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declare a war on country on similiar power (1.2 vs 1.5) with +100% to war wearness (free trade + inclusivity) isnt best tactic i think
edit: now +125% of war wearness because he switch on democracy
edit2: two towns revolt and make ukrainian country, he swap to less war-wearness civics (feudal aristocracy and civil religion)
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No idea why he didnt turn into dictatorship and choose autocracy
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I like the idea that civs that are lower in the table just don't want to trade technologies with you “you're top1, what's up, would you like to have an even bigger advantage over us?”.
I wonder how the idea of a -1 penalty to relations with other civs for every +10% advantage in points over others “your power is a threat to others” would work out

leaders with the “isolationist” perk should have a penchant for “protectionism” because they are happy not to interact commercially with others. “why? all now it's perfect”
ofc when they get more coins on trade they turn into free market, but it would do a niche for isolationist leaders with many vassals civs

inca leaders have a similar way of playing the game - they are active until they are top 1, the moment they are top 1 they play conservatively and calmly - something like the “sleeping empire” in stellaris

I think that leaders who have the trait of “isolationist” should also play this way - you are top1, set trade civic protectionism and sweet laziness until REAL threat didnt emerge
 

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I don't see this as a major issue. All that empty space will be settled sooner or later and they will find their target then.
But that coudl make it harder for stronger civs, and simulate big barbarian invasions. Maybe small code, that 40+ units horde will get citty lemming with bigger range. Also not changing it make it harder for new barbarians eralier civilization, they are very soon attacked by big hordes.
Why? They do what they are supposed to be doing, that is, be pirates.
But they are also barbarians, like for example the sea people, also pirates in history plunder the coastline villiges like ancient mediterean, vikings, western slavs, muslims etc.
I'd recommend looking up the trade mission function in the GameCore - shouldn't be very hard to make it give out stuff to both parties (though if you don't create a separate one, it will also affect Great Merchants).
Thanks!

Also I have one more question:
I noticed that you assign values from 4 to -1 to the iBetterRankDifferenceAttitudeChange attribute in leaderheadinfo. Can I assign values smaller than -1, and will they work so that a given civilization will dislike those stronger than itself even more? Will it for example value set to -8 give -8 malus to relations with stronger civs?
 
But that coudl make it harder for stronger civs, and simulate big barbarian invasions. Maybe small code, that 40+ units horde will get citty lemming with bigger range. Also not changing it make it harder for new barbarians eralier civilization, they are very soon attacked by big hordes.
it could be an event that shows up in the information bar "barbarian invasion is near!" when classical era end historically
Like "The Horde" unit and + 30 another units spawn near civ with similiar strenght
or maybe 3x 30 units of barbarians spawn in different locations,this even would be as additional option in menu when you start a new game, i would test it
 
Also I have one more question:
I noticed that you assign values from 4 to -1 to the iBetterRankDifferenceAttitudeChange attribute in leaderheadinfo. Can I assign values smaller than -1, and will they work so that a given civilization will dislike those stronger than itself even more? Will it for example value set to -8 give -8 malus to relations with stronger civs?
Should work 🤷‍♂️
why i can build nuclear shelters when even somehing like nuclear weapons isnt invented yet?
A vanilla thing, nobody seems to have bothered to actually write in a check that nuclear shelters only make sense when nukes are enabled. Fortunately, it is a quick and easy fix - now they will only show up in the building list once the nukes have been enabled.

Hilariously, when looking at the building, I realized someone at Firaxis clearly swapped bunker and bomb shelter building art around, as "Bunkers" which have nothing to do with nukes have a radiation symbol on them. Moreover, and to underscore how it was likely a last-minute mistake, I found that the bunker building in vanilla assets includes a better-quality texture than the one used in-game, which was likely supposed to replace the current one but never got used (seems they were going to go over many buildings to give them better-res textures, as blank "bunker_128.dds" files can also be found in a couple of other buildings' folders).

Wouldn't be the first one - they likewise swapped Qin Shi Huang and Kublai on release without realizing it (though that one was later fixed).
 
Hilariously, when looking at the building, I realized someone at Firaxis clearly swapped bunker and bomb shelter building art around, as "Bunkers" which have nothing to do with nukes have a radiation symbol on them. Moreover, and to underscore how it was likely a last-minute mistake, I found that the bunker building in vanilla assets includes a better-quality texture than the one used in-game, which was likely supposed to replace the current one but never got used (seems they were going to go over many buildings to give them better-res textures, as blank "bunker_128.dds" files can also be found in a couple of other buildings' folders).

Wouldn't be the first one - they likewise swapped Qin Shi Huang and Kublai on release without realizing it (though that one was later fixed).
true,I had a chance to see how awful the code and other things looks in this game
meantime, all techs discovered
victory through space flight makes no sense at this level of culture
(siigh) its time to buff up culture level requirements, +10% :culture: for tests, since civs dont get so many culture in nev version
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