Realism Invictus

[AspiringScholar]

Do you have the same issue if you quit to main menu and start a new game instead of using Regenerate Map?

I actually do both: Regenerate Map if I am wanting to use the same leader and from the main menu if I decide to switch to another one. Anecdotally, jungle seems prominent in probably two thirds of the starts that I roll from either method.

 

[[Y]]

I actually do both: Regenerate Map if I am wanting to use the same leader and from the main menu if I decide to switch to another one. Anecdotally, jungle seems prominent in probably two thirds of the starts that I roll from either method.

Gotcha. Your experience generally mirrors mine. I've modified my totestra to radically reduce jungle density.

I think part of it is because of how the map picks optimal starting locations. In the code it looks at all the plots, and all the potential improvements for the plots, and what their food values are with those improvements, and uses all that to determine the quality of that starting location. Since Slash and Burn Farms, especially when combined with Animism, has very generous food yields for the ancient/classical eras, it probably ranks jungle tiles very highly. I don't think it does anything to penalize a starting spot for unhealth and/or pandemic chance (though it will remove bad features, like jungles, until there's only three of them in the BFC), so it probably has an unintended bias for jungles.

 

[le_harv]

Gotcha. Your experience generally mirrors mine. I've modified my totestra to radically reduce jungle density.

I am curious about what you edited and by how much? I’d like to shrink the jungle coverage and the desert spread just a tad.

 

[PKSRoman]

with "raging barbarians" after fall of country barbarians finally behave like some separatists states and attack civilized ones

no idea why he building a great wonder here:

 

[rbNEXUS6]

Is there any way we could get a collection of all the leaderhead art used in past RI versions? One of the things I dread every update is which cool portraits are going to get replaced with something totally goofy (Augustus Caesar comes to mind this time around), and I'll often swap those out with the ones from the previous version. It'd be nice to have everything in a single resource to make that handy.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

I mean, you can just download any previous version, as they're all kept on SourceForge? That'll have the ones used in that version. IIRC, you don't even need to unpack anything, as the leaderhead dds files are one of the few assets that's kept loose. Or if you check out the SVN version, you can "roll back" any specific file to any version you want.

 

[rbNEXUS6]

I mean, you can just download any previous version, as they're all kept on SourceForge? That'll have the ones used in that version. IIRC, you don't even need to unpack anything, as the leaderhead dds files are one of the few assets that's kept loose. Or if you check out the SVN version, you can "roll back" any specific file to any version you want.

Thanks, I was thinking I'd have to reinstall every previous version if going that route. I'll figure it out.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Nah, if you use TortoiseSVN, you can right-click on a file and choose "Show Log" to see which revisions it was changed - and then similarly right-clicking "Update to Revision" and choose a number right before that one to update to an older version.

 

[Tango Delta 72]

CIV RI 3.72 test play - Random Warlord start as Krishna Raja Wadirya IV of the Dravidians on a Small RI_Planet_Generator generated map:
- Game version is "Realism Invictus 3.72 (2025-02-24) Setup (Full).exe" - 372.2025.2.25
- MD5 hash of Realism Invictus 3.72 (2025-02-24) Setup (Full).exe: 442712f17dc1b17b8d118be51e3ab95d
- No Worldbuilder capability - the game options are locked with an admin password (ESC | Game Option --> presents admin password prompt, and Ctrl-W does not present)
- New Random Seed on Reload appears to be restored and functioning as expected throughout the game (yay!).
- Can move Helepolis in forests
- Could move Unique Cannon (Mons Meg, et al) in forests prior to declaring war, but then could not after war was declared. I was also able to move it in a forest tile if I Alt-right-clicked on it with a group of other units (melee, recon, archer, etc).
- If Santa Anna (WUU) could carry 1 unit, why cannot its upgrade path unit (frigate) also not carry 1 unit? IMO, any upgrade path unit should not lose its prior capabilities. This may be an old question or observation, but I did not find an answer in the prior documentation. Historically, the Armored Carrack was a massive thing, and the typical frigate was smaller, but maybe the Santa Anna shouldn't have a cargo space to begin with?
- I am able to load explorers into carracks/sloops as expected, but I'm still able to upgrade the onboard explorer to a Light Infantry *while still loaded* on the ship unit when the ship is on a city tile. Great hack to move a bunch of LIs with impunity for exploring far landmasses or attacking before having Merchantmen to move more troops. I've been doing that since RI 3.whoknowswhen (Total Realism? Perhaps even earlier )
- All submarine unit types are unable to enter ice tiles
- Modern destroyers can no longer Break Ice. It seems that the Nuclear Icebreaker WUU is the only unit which can access that function at any time. I.e. - if your Civ doesn't get the NI first, you can never Break Ice. On that note: there are plenty of non-nuclear-powered vessels which can break ice (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icebreaker and as a modern example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RV_Polarstern). While it may be an incentive to build the first one for some reward (e.g. - first to go 'round the world, attain Scientific Method; you can Break Ice one turn faster?), if another Civ acquires the requisite techs & resources, that capability should not be limited to the first Civ to get the World Unique Unit.
- This may be OBE in 3.7x (and I forgot to test in this game), but in Realism Invictus 3.7 (2024-12-22) I was able to create as many Armored Carracks as I wanted to. (that was fun)

Hope this helps. Many thanks to all who created RI, and many more thanks to all who are keeping it going. I apologize for not enabling proper logging when I started this game test (PythonErr.log), so I can't share that. Maybe next time.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

- Can move Helepolis in forests
- Could move Unique Cannon (Mons Meg, et al) in forests prior to declaring war, but then could not after war was declared. I was also able to move it in a forest tile if I Alt-right-clicked on it with a group of other units (melee, recon, archer, etc).

You can ignore terrain/feature restrictions in your own territory, this was mentioned in the changelogs (consistency with sea units, where it was always the case).

- If Santa Anna (WUU) could carry 1 unit, why cannot its upgrade path unit (frigate) also not carry 1 unit? IMO, any upgrade path unit should not lose its prior capabilities. This may be an old question or observation, but I did not find an answer in the prior documentation. Historically, the Armored Carrack was a massive thing, and the typical frigate was smaller, but maybe the Santa Anna shouldn't have a cargo space to begin with?

I mean, it being able to carry units is a fun feature to have, but military ships carrying units shouldn't be the norm. Nor would it obviously be ideal to never let it upgrade or upgrade it into a transport. It is what it is, and it's not unique in this regard, Spanish caravels also have capability to carry normal units, whereas their upgrades don't. At the time when their respective upgrades become available, you already have proper naval transport to do the job instead.

- I am able to load explorers into carracks/sloops as expected, but I'm still able to upgrade the onboard explorer to a Light Infantry *while still loaded* on the ship unit when the ship is on a city tile. Great hack to move a bunch of LIs with impunity for exploring far landmasses or attacking before having Merchantmen to move more troops. I've been doing that since RI 3.whoknowswhen (Total Realism? Perhaps even earlier )

Enjoy.

- All submarine unit types are unable to enter ice tiles

Hm, that's an oversight, will restore the ability to modern ones (not WW1 and WW2 ones though).

- Modern destroyers can no longer Break Ice. It seems that the Nuclear Icebreaker WUU is the only unit which can access that function at any time. I.e. - if your Civ doesn't get the NI first, you can never Break Ice. On that note: there are plenty of non-nuclear-powered vessels which can break ice (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icebreaker and as a modern example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RV_Polarstern). While it may be an incentive to build the first one for some reward (e.g. - first to go 'round the world, attain Scientific Method; you can Break Ice one turn faster?), if another Civ acquires the requisite techs & resources, that capability should not be limited to the first Civ to get the World Unique Unit.

Yes, all intentional. The same logic can be applied to all world units (why not build another big siege tower or ship or cannon?), yet here we are with restrictions on them.

- This may be OBE in 3.7x (and I forgot to test in this game), but in Realism Invictus 3.7 (2024-12-22) I was able to create as many Armored Carracks as I wanted to. (that was fun)

I have no idea how or why this could possibly have happened.

 

[Sinocpm]

Hm, that's an oversight, will restore the ability to modern ones (not WW1 and WW2 ones though).

Yes I have noticed this as well, and I would agree with your solution. Also as mentioned before, the Ballistic Submarine indeed still starts with the Torpedo III promotion, which makes the Attack Submarine kinda redundant.

It seems that the Nuclear Icebreaker WUU is the only unit which can access that function at any time. I.e. - if your Civ doesn't get the NI first, you can never Break Ice.

I think I would agree to this notion here, that's a bit strange. The logic in your explanation is also somewhat flawed I would say, because you can still succesfully take a city, even without having a corresponding WU, while you will never be able to break ice if you don't have the Nuclear Icebreaker. The unit itself is cool and I wouldn't want to get rid of it, but maybe let Modern Destroyers have that feature as well, the NI just does it a whole lot faster. Or maybe after a certain technology Work Boats will be able to do that as well (also slower than the NI)? Or even introduce another non-WU Icebreaker unit with inferior stats to the NI? Just my two cents.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Also as mentioned before, the Ballistic Submarine indeed still starts with the Torpedo III promotion, which makes the Attack Submarine kinda redundant.

Yeah, forgot that one. Fixed.

I think I would agree to this notion here, that's a bit strange. The logic in your explanation is also somewhat flawed I would say, because you can still succesfully take a city, even without having a corresponding WU, while you will never be able to break ice if you don't have the Nuclear Icebreaker. The unit itself is cool and I wouldn't want to get rid of it, but maybe let Modern Destroyers have that feature as well, the NI just does it a whole lot faster. Or maybe after a certain technology Work Boats will be able to do that as well (also slower than the NI)? Or even introduce another non-WU Icebreaker unit with inferior stats to the NI? Just my two cents.

Nah, I am actually happy with a unit giving someone a unique ability - I find it much more interesting than a "bigger tank". Ideally every world unit would allow you to do something you normally can't; after all, they are unit-shaped World Wonders. I want more unique stuff in RI, not less. Also, from purely gameplay logic perspective, this late in game, if you want to have it as a player, you'll beeline for it and will have it.

 

[RezerCuid]

But what if we steal the idea from gathering storm and make it so that when everyone has a lot of factories and power plants, the ice gradually began to melt?

 

[Jaded1]

I've been pondering the Sea/Ocean squares for a long time. Mostly in that early ships can't go out into the Ocean. But this doesn't line up with Viking ships travelling to Greenland or Canada long before the Renaissance. So, I came up with a possible solution. Use the reef damage system, only more damage, i.e. instead of 25% per turn make it 50%. All ships will be able to travel on any water square. But Renaissance ships and beyond will start with an immunity promotion. And the Viking Drakkar could start with a resistance promotion reducing the damage it takes to 25% per turn. Doing this will mean ships in the early Era's will behave more realistically. And not have to wait for a city border expansions to cross a single ocean square. But it means even when they do cross, whether they are inside or outside a border, they'll have taken damage and be vulnerable until they heal.

Oh, and the other thing I would like to see is a change to Desert Squares. Firstly there should 3 types Semi Arid, Dry and Hot. Semi Arid should do 10% damage per turn, Dry 25% and Hot 50%. Oasis does no damage. And certain promotions would reduce the damage. Some units would be able to start with those promotions and others could learn them on the promotion tree. Obviously these are purely ideas and suggestions. I just thought if I put the ideas out there, others could throw in their own thoughts on the ideas.

Also, Swamps and Tundra 10% damage per turn and Ice 50%.

My logic it that the biggest thing missing from Realism is the danger to units from exposure. Throughout history one of the biggest dangers has been from the land itself. And right now Realism Invictus doesn't have any effect on units based on terrain types.

 

[Ahnarras]

Yeah I agree that being able to explore the integrality of Sahara in a few turns is a bit weird. Having desert tile doing some damage (and healing at oasis, for exemple) would be a fun addition.
Not sure how the IA would handle though.... We don't want it to suicide their troups in vain by marauding stupidly in the desert for nothing. Same problem with the barbares.

But what if we steal the idea from gathering storm and make it so that when everyone has a lot of factories and power plants, the ice gradually began to melt?

I'm not sure that's in the scope of this mod. As far as I understood, Walter deemed the "endgame" to be around 1980, and I don't remember the ice caps melting being really a concern at that point of time.

But as it was said a few pages earlier, it's hard to include everything that happened IRL in a game. I would love for Egypt to start in a savanna biome that gradually changes into a desert, but I'm pretty sure that would require heavy coding to be implemented (and even more if you want to makes it work on random map !)

 

[TheBirdMan]

After you (Walter) wrote back to me how easy it was to change in-game names for terrain bonuses -

Renaming, as in changing the in-game name, is absolutely harmless, and can be done by changing the relevant TXT_KEY, or pointing to a new one - if what you're asking is whether you could get the current "Iron" resource to be called "Iron Ore" in-game.

I found out that you were absolutely right - it works perfectly.


Now I would suggest that you consider renaming Iron to Iron_Ore and Wheat to Cereals.

The reason is simple - it "makes room for" many more different uses, such as different types of iron (wrought iron, pig iron, cast iron) that can be consumed separately or in combinations to produce different types of "iron/steel" in a Forge or Blast for special weapons - fx Damascus steel used for the blades of historical swords from the NearEast) - or that Wheat isn't only Wheat but also barley, rye, oats and/or millet (and more if that's of interest for any). Personally, I was interested in an easy way to add barley for (very early) beer brewing.

And all this without changing (much) in the basic types of terrain bonuses......

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

But what if we steal the idea from gathering storm and make it so that when everyone has a lot of factories and power plants, the ice gradually began to melt?

Out of scope.

I've been pondering the Sea/Ocean squares for a long time. Mostly in that early ships can't go out into the Ocean. But this doesn't line up with Viking ships travelling to Greenland or Canada long before the Renaissance.

Already covered by existing game mechanics. Vikings colonized Iceland and Greenland and traversed the ocean tiles within their borders. You can do the same in the World Maps.

My logic it that the biggest thing missing from Realism is the danger to units from exposure. Throughout history one of the biggest dangers has been from the land itself. And right now Realism Invictus doesn't have any effect on units based on terrain types.

Won't happen unless you volunteer to code a competent AI to evaluate and deal with damaging land terrain features. Adding new terrains (such as the flavours of desert you're suggesting) also not happening unless you want to limit RI to the couple of map scripts I'd be willing to maintain.

 

[PKSRoman]

But what if we steal the idea from gathering storm and make it so that when everyone has a lot of factories and power plants, the ice gradually began to melt?

you would need a working “global warming” option

Also, Swamps and Tundra 10% damage per turn and Ice 50%.

in new dawn mod there is optional option "movement limit" and it even work
some technologies allow you to move farther and farther on the map, and if you exceed the current limit you get a -90%hp penalty every turn
it work both on ground and water
in ancient era it allow you move 10-15 tiles from nearest civ town if i good remember, in medival 20-25 and so on

 

[Jaded1]

Now I would suggest that you consider renaming Iron to Iron Ore and Wheat to Cereals.

And Deer to Wild Game or Game. Since there are places like Australia that don't have any Native Deer. But we do have plenty of Kangaroos and other Wild Game to hunt.

 

[Jaded1]

Already covered by existing game mechanics. Vikings colonized Iceland and Greenland and traversed the ocean tiles within their borders. You can do the same in the World Maps.

Not true, remember City Borders won't go beyond 1 Ocean square. But a few updates ago, someone changed the coast squares in south east Greenland to Sea Ice squares. So even if you build a city on the north west forest square of Iceland the borders will never extend out to the next open coast square of Greenland.