Realism Invictus

[PKSRoman]

Nope, I will not allow any realism in my mod!

 

[[Y]]

I've tried a few games recently and I've been seeing forests and jungles show up on resource tiles on which they shouldn't (or historically haven't) spawned. This includes forests on silver, salt, and corn (it spread onto the latter as a forest growth event, if it matters) and jungle on copper. Particularly annoying is the copper was on the hill and there is no visual cue for the jungle. Until I settled it, sent workers to build a mine, and saw the "requires aqueduct" message, I had no idea it was there.

Are these intentional? If not, has anyone else seen this happen? It might be entirely on my end due to local changes, but I can't think of anything I've done that would engage with this (other than altering totestra's map forest and jungle spawn temps).

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

I've tried a few games recently and I've been seeing forests and jungles show up on resource tiles on which they shouldn't (or historically haven't) spawned. This includes forests on silver, salt, and corn (it spread onto the latter as a forest growth event, if it matters) and jungle on copper. Particularly annoying is the copper was on the hill and there is no visual cue for the jungle. Until I settled it, sent workers to build a mine, and saw the "requires aqueduct" message, I had no idea it was there.

Are these intentional? If not, has anyone else seen this happen? It might be entirely on my end due to local changes, but I can't think of anything I've done that would engage with this (other than altering totestra's map forest and jungle spawn temps).

I don't believe there were any changes recently that might have caused that. The likeliest explanation is a quirk of a specific map script - are you using one that you didn't normally use before?

 

[[Y]]

I don't believe there were any changes recently that might have caused that. The likeliest explanation is a quirk of a specific map script - are you using one that you didn't normally use before?

Nope. Using my RI_Totestra spin off, and in only adjusts the land quantity and temp-based terrain feature chance.

If no one else reports the same experience, though, I'll try a re-install and see if that helps.

 

[TheBirdMan]

I surrender.

Mao the terrier and his puppy Emilio won't let me off the hook.

I'm not sure, but the war has probably lasted about 150 turns now - and I've gotten so far behind that it doesn't make sense to continue. And it went just so well at the beginning. (look down for yourself).

Spoiler Screenshots from a game :

New invasion. This time from the sea. It's not that I have huge problems killing those invaders - it's just I can't develop fast enough/don't have enough gold for upgrading my troops. I'm just sliding further and further away from the top......

Next section is screenshots close to the time, where I changed leaders.

Previous leader: Stephen Bathory for approximately 250 turns. Current leader Jadwiga rules for the next approximately 240 turns.

Jozef Pilsudski takes over at turn 595 or a little earlier and leads for the next 200 turns (plus/minus some turns).

John III Sobeiski took over 'round turn 800. 160-170 turns later.... well. Game closed.

Same screenshot as #2.

But even though my pride has been badly hurt - I'll have to try again with the same settings (and map). But with a different civilization.

Edit:

Spoiler Worldbuilder screenshot from the last turn added. :

Edit-edit: Size of last savegame is 5.037kB - and I have had no technical problems at all with the game.

 

[AspiringScholar]

I've tried a few games recently and I've been seeing forests and jungles show up on resource tiles on which they shouldn't (or historically haven't) spawned. This includes forests on silver, salt, and corn (it spread onto the latter as a forest growth event, if it matters) and jungle on copper. Particularly annoying is the copper was on the hill and there is no visual cue for the jungle. Until I settled it, sent workers to build a mine, and saw the "requires aqueduct" message, I had no idea it was there.

Are these intentional? If not, has anyone else seen this happen? It might be entirely on my end due to local changes, but I can't think of anything I've done that would engage with this (other than altering totestra's map forest and jungle spawn temps).

Perhaps I'm misremembering, but I want to say that silver does sometimes spawn under forest? Otherwise, I've never seen any of those (other than the forest/jungle spreading passively, though even then, I'm not sure if it's normally allowed to do this over those resources). If you specifically modified the logic for forest and jungle spawning, it seems like that would be the likeliest explanation to me, but I don't know how Totestra's map generation logic works from a white box standpoint.

--

Some small feedback from my recent game to 1AD on SVN 5557 which I decided to scrap in favor of the most recent tech balancing later on in the game:

Spoiler :

- The hyperlink in Pedia from Priesthood to incense is broken and leads to a blank page.

- For some reason, in this game, I was receiving a tech transfer bonus without an active trade route with or even geographic knowledge of any cities of the civ from whom I was getting it via open borders. It's possible that I was misunderstanding something, but I wanted to mention it in case this was a legitimate bug. I've attached the relevant save. The tech in question is Iron Working, and I was receiving this from (if I remember correctly) the Arabians, who had met me via a galley, but whose land was still unknown to me, and none of my cities had trade routes with his, nor did any other civ I had open borders with know this tech.

- This is something that I halfway suspect having already mentioned, but in my opinion, the arena would be better represented by a more humble structure, or might even be due for a conceptual redesign altogether. To me, it feels visually out of place as a building ideally constructed in every major city in essentially being a visual clone of the Flavian Amphitheater in Rome (which already is its own wonder, after all) and too grandiose and magnificent for what these historically often were outside of "wonder" scale buildings in major imperial capitals. Also, I find it a bit jarring to see a giant "bowl" in every major city which is by far the most conspicuous building among all of the others, until all the way to Show Business in effectively the XX Century, when such arenas were seldom if at all used to a meaningful degree past the classical era in real history. While the Romans had other similar-looking arenas, perhaps it could be tuned down a bit visually, and maybe the current default should be a distinctive building for them, and the default for other civs appear less overtly Greco-Roman. The flavor variant for the East Asian civs looks nice, but is that also not a "fantasy" building in the first place, since as far as I know, commercialized combat as a spectator sport for mass public entertainment wasn't something that was even done in the same sense outside of Rome? As such, it feels a bit shoehorned to me, but I don't know what would serve as a good catch-all "entertainment building" in its absence.

- East Asian spies have regular male voices in sharing the default speech of regular units, although they are depicted as women. The existing vanilla sound asset for modern spies (who are also women, in game) would probably be a better substitute. If I recall correctly, it is simply a female "Mmm?"

- City Ruins lack a "Terrain Feature" page in Pedia. I may have also mentioned this one before, but as they provide a 25% combat bonus and are an overlay which gets removed with other improvements' construction, it might be worthwhile to have this information accessible there, if easily done.

- If one is constructing a building obsoleted by another building while also researching the technology unlocking the latter, all existing progress in the former is lost, which can be quite frustrating. In this case, I was constructing a public well in a particularly hammer-poor city which was also beset by a lot of epidemic chance which I was trying to mitigate, and without realizing it, unlocked aqueducts with Water Pump and unwittingly lost all of my invested production in the well, which was nearing completion and at this point had taken upwards of 30 turns. Would it be possible to implement the "fail gold" mechanic for wonders to buildings that are obsoleted by the availability of their upgrades, so that all previous investment of the construction isn't outright wasted? Failing that, perhaps both buildings should remain available, and the former only become obsoleted once the upgrade is already constructed, so as to prevent this situation?

- I had made a note to mention the excellent feel for tech pace in this game up through mid-classical, but that was already mentioned and it's nice to see that it wasn't just my impression.

 

[Sathar]

SVN 5557 (I'm a couple behind, 5558/5559 broke my save game): Shock Troop (Armenia) seems to be missing textures (and look fabulous in hot pink, "I say if you're going into combat -- clash!").

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Nope. Using my RI_Totestra spin off, and in only adjusts the land quantity and temp-based terrain feature chance.

Weird, as I'm currently playtesting on Totestra myself, and don't see anything of the kind.

- The hyperlink in Pedia from Priesthood to incense is broken and leads to a blank page.

Works on my side both ways (Priesthood -> Incense and back).

- For some reason, in this game, I was receiving a tech transfer bonus without an active trade route with or even geographic knowledge of any cities of the civ from whom I was getting it via open borders. It's possible that I was misunderstanding something, but I wanted to mention it in case this was a legitimate bug. I've attached the relevant save. The tech in question is Iron Working, and I was receiving this from (if I remember correctly) the Arabians, who had met me via a galley, but whose land was still unknown to me, and none of my cities had trade routes with his, nor did any other civ I had open borders with know this tech.

Thanks, I'll check.

- This is something that I halfway suspect having already mentioned, but in my opinion, the arena would be better represented by a more humble structure, or might even be due for a conceptual redesign altogether. To me, it feels visually out of place as a building ideally constructed in every major city in essentially being a visual clone of the Flavian Amphitheater in Rome (which already is its own wonder, after all) and too grandiose and magnificent for what these historically often were outside of "wonder" scale buildings in major imperial capitals. Also, I find it a bit jarring to see a giant "bowl" in every major city which is by far the most conspicuous building among all of the others, until all the way to Show Business in effectively the XX Century, when such arenas were seldom if at all used to a meaningful degree past the classical era in real history. While the Romans had other similar-looking arenas, perhaps it could be tuned down a bit visually, and maybe the current default should be a distinctive building for them, and the default for other civs appear less overtly Greco-Roman. The flavor variant for the East Asian civs looks nice, but is that also not a "fantasy" building in the first place, since as far as I know, commercialized combat as a spectator sport for mass public entertainment wasn't something that was even done in the same sense outside of Rome? As such, it feels a bit shoehorned to me, but I don't know what would serve as a good catch-all "entertainment building" in its absence.

In its current shape, it's definitely not modelled after the Flavian Amphitheatre, but rather on more modest arenas that were a staple of even small Roman towns. The specific design, I'd say, comes from a very well-preserved arena in Nîmes, which is used to this day. I agree that the distinctive round shape is the Roman "trademark", but conceptually, gathering spaces for public entertainment were definitely a thing. I am not treating arenas as specifically gladiatorial - and nor did even Romans themselves, actually - while gladiator fights were the most popular spectator sports, just as in the modern age, arenas were multi-purpose entertainment facilities, used for all kinds of purposes.

Nevertheless, I hear you, and I'll keep an eye out for something that might fit better for some other cultures for the same purpose (generally speaking, in many cases, it should be a square courtyard rather than a round arena). All in all, a large public venue for viewing festivals and proto-sports was a rather ubiquitous fixture, but the exact shape it took could vary a lot.

- East Asian spies have regular male voices in sharing the default speech of regular units, although they are depicted as women. The existing vanilla sound asset for modern spies (who are also women, in game) would probably be a better substitute. If I recall correctly, it is simply a female "Mmm?"

Good point. And I'll probably do that - but to counter, from looking at the default ancient spy model, it was always my understanding that they were supposed to be the same female spy from modern age, just crossdressing and wearing a fake beard and moustache - because, you know, ancient times and women's rights. Take a look at the animations - the idle pose is exactly the same as the modern spy (and not very... masculine). So the Asian version is just keeping the good ancient trend alive, and is actually a guy crossdressing as a female. But yes, let's teach him the pretend female voice - after all, his female colleagues can muster a convincingly male one!

- City Ruins lack a "Terrain Feature" page in Pedia. I may have also mentioned this one before, but as they provide a 25% combat bonus and are an overlay which gets removed with other improvements' construction, it might be worthwhile to have this information accessible there, if easily done.

I see your point, but same as with mountains/hills, I am not sure I'd be able to.

- If one is constructing a building obsoleted by another building while also researching the technology unlocking the latter, all existing progress in the former is lost, which can be quite frustrating. In this case, I was constructing a public well in a particularly hammer-poor city which was also beset by a lot of epidemic chance which I was trying to mitigate, and without realizing it, unlocked aqueducts with Water Pump and unwittingly lost all of my invested production in the well, which was nearing completion and at this point had taken upwards of 30 turns. Would it be possible to implement the "fail gold" mechanic for wonders to buildings that are obsoleted by the availability of their upgrades, so that all previous investment of the construction isn't outright wasted? Failing that, perhaps both buildings should remain available, and the former only become obsoleted once the upgrade is already constructed, so as to prevent this situation?

I kind of feel bad for writing that, but only kind of - if this situation occurs, this is entirely player's fault as there's nothing unavoidable about it. You set the building queue, you set the research. And yes, I sometimes get hit by this one too, but my own reaction is usually "oh, yeah, silly me". So this is definitely not a big priority to "fix" for me.

5558/5559 broke my save game

I even put that into the revision description. VERY save-incompatible. Several new arrays per player should mess up the checksum something fierce.

Shock Troop (Armenia) seems to be missing textures (and look fabulous in hot pink, "I say if you're going into combat -- clash!").

Weird. They're fine on my side; can any other SVN user check theirs? I suspect the issue is on your side, somehow:

 

[12090722]

The hyperlink in Pedia from Priesthood to incense is broken and leads to a blank page.

Works on my side both ways (Priesthood -> Incense and back).

Just to share my experience, since version 3.8, I've started experiencing this blank page issue occasionally as well. However, I didn't report this earlier because I couldn't reproduce the bug and thought it wasn't a major issue.

For what it's worth, it seems to occur mainly when right-clicking from the Tech tree to access the Civilopedia, while I haven't seen this happen yet when navigating within the Civilopedia itself.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

For what it's worth, it seems to occur mainly when right-clicking from the Tech tree to access the Civilopedia, while I haven't seen this happen yet when navigating within the Civilopedia itself.

Oooh, now I can reproduce it! Indeed, right-clicking causes the blank page in question. I'll see what I can do.

 

[Sathar]

I even put that into the revision description. VERY save-incompatible. Several new arrays per player should mess up the checksum something fierce.

Weird. They're fine on my side; can any other SVN user check theirs? I suspect the issue is on your side, somehow:

Could be at my end, I updated to 5559 then rolled back to 5557 to continue my game. Rolling back SVNs always feels a little iffy.

 

[Major Tom]

The victory condition screen for UN diplomatic victory seems to be broken. Cannot see how many votes everyone have. Seems that the Comintern votes are the only one showed.

Spoiler :

I am on 3.8 release version.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

The screen can be toggled between various international organisations in the lower right corner.

Edit: oh, I see what you mean. Will adjust.

 

[sqwishy]

Hi, looking for a bit of advice on fighting a nuclear power? In my game, the AI ignored the superpower from the start and, after millennia of in-fighting, nobody weaker than me remains but the superpower was unchallenged and now they have Tactical Nukes, Improvised MBTs (42), Mechanized Infantry (28). I have Shock Troops (20) and Conscripts (16). I'm quite close to Anti-Tank Infantry. But 500+ turns away from Tactical Nukes.

Once I get AT, I might have a shot at relieving them of their Uranium through brute force. But as it is now, even when I take a city from them, they nuke the city or nuke my armies in their territory, and it liquefies all my guys. I have spies in their cities, but there isn't any way I can sabotage/detonate their tactical nuke units or anything, right? Additionally, when this guy is dropping nukes on my armies in his own territory, is there a penalty to his approval or something that I can take advantage of? I'm imagining his own citizens might be a little upset seeing their towns and farms blown up or becoming neighbours to some nuclear fallout at the hands if their own state? I'm curious if that comes up through war weariness or something somehow and I can invite attrition that way.

Just curious if anybody has thoughts. I'm thankful for any advice and thanks also for the mod :]

 

[AspiringScholar]

Hi, looking for a bit of advice on fighting a nuclear power? In my game, the AI ignored the superpower from the start and, after millennia of in-fighting, nobody weaker than me remains but the superpower was unchallenged and now they have Tactical Nukes, Improvised MBTs (42), Mechanized Infantry (28). I have Shock Troops (20) and Conscripts (16). I'm quite close to Anti-Tank Infantry. But 500+ turns away from Tactical Nukes.

Once I get AT, I might have a shot at relieving them of their Uranium through brute force. But as it is now, even when I take a city from them, they nuke the city or nuke my armies in their territory, and it liquefies all my guys. I have spies in their cities, but there isn't any way I can sabotage/detonate their tactical nuke units or anything, right? Additionally, when this guy is dropping nukes on my armies in his own territory, is there a penalty to his approval or something that I can take advantage of? I'm imagining his own citizens might be a little upset seeing their towns and farms blown up or becoming neighbours to some nuclear fallout at the hands if their own state? I'm curious if that comes up through war weariness or something somehow and I can invite attrition that way.

Just curious if anybody has thoughts. I'm thankful for any advice and thanks also for the mod :]

It might be helpful if you could post a save and some screenshots. It sounds like you might be drain-spiraling already, but sometimes those kinds of wars are surprisingly fun, when you've concluded strategic defeat but want to inflict as much difficulty on your opponent as possible.

As to the propensity for nuking, almost every anecdote I've heard about the end game involves some major nuclear war instigated by the AI. This seems to be a new thing, as they were situational and somewhat rare, before. Is it just me, or am I detecting this pattern correctly? Did something change to make this more likely as of 3.72 and later? I know that there were a lot of changes made surrounding the use of nuclear weapons in game, but I thought that these were mostly in the form of penalties, rather than incentives to use them.

 

[FABRIZIO BERTUZZI]

After the latest update, I’ve noticed that technological discoveries are being reached much earlier than before. As a result, at the beginning of the 1900s I’m already researching the Apollo Program. I’m playing in single-player mode against 15 opponents on the RI_PLANET_GENERATOR map.

 

[Ianchen99]

Yes same as the post above. I feel the tech rate is still way faster than intended. In my current run (Monarch difficulty), Huge World Map Realism Speed, The Great Library was built in 1365 BC...My research rate was very quick that i am always above the recommended tech pace (with 50% additional tech cost or more).

Playing as Japan, I find it weird that with Sailing (or i don't remember what tech), you can actually trade with tech transfer with far off nations like Spain and England in like 800BC... This is not realistic at all.

And there seems to be no real "downside" to just Opening borders with every single nation.. Yes their tech will catchup with u but as long as u run with 0% tech, u can basically research a new tech with just tech transfer... Then just switch it back to 100% once u got enough money to spend..

I think one simple fix would be make the AI more hesitant to Open borders with the player/ with other AIs. (Maybe needs to be at least "Pleased" in order to have Open Borders. Once your relation dip below "Pleased" they would cancel OB with u). This would decrease the overall tech pace in the game.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

After the latest update, I’ve noticed that technological discoveries are being reached much earlier than before. As a result, at the beginning of the 1900s I’m already researching the Apollo Program. I’m playing in single-player mode against 15 opponents on the RI_PLANET_GENERATOR map.

Yes, will be fixed in 3.81, out soon.

On that topic, today's SVN is the tentative 3.81 unless anything major is discovered during the next couple of days.

 

[AspiringScholar]

Yes, will be fixed in 3.81, out soon.

On that topic, today's SVN is the tentative 3.81 unless anything major is discovered during the next couple of days.

"Consistency: unit plot lists will now display era-relevant icons for units, same as elsewhere in the interface (all three versions)"

Could you help me understand what exactly this is referring to, please? Is this something in the military advisor?

 

[Walter Hawkwood]