Realism Invictus

[tebriz]

I don't actually think it's that implausible. Even if (maybe even especially if) the population is relatively prosperous, but the central authority is weak, I believe it's reasonable to expect some breakaway sentiments. The starkest example is probably China, which regularly in its history fell apart into several states, not through any cultural or religious divides. So yes, I think any large city should have base separatism, as it is potentially a contender to be, quoting Caesar, "first in that little village rather than second in Rome". And yes, especially in a situation where a civ is top of the scoreboard - one of the main reasons for this mechanism existing is the runaway leader empires to collapse under their own weight.

I’d like to argue this point from a historical perspective rather than a gameplay one. China, as we know it today, is considered a single nation, but historically its territory was home to many different peoples speaking completely different languages. There were around 80 distinct ethnic groups before they were gradually assimilated by Han.

And regarding the game itself: I was happy to share my thoughts on this topic, whether they end up being implemented or not - maybe they’ll still be useful for other players. Personally, I really enjoy the settings I use. What bothers me, as I mentioned before, is that overall there are fewer revolutions than I’d actually like to see. And with the current variables, I don’t see a good way to increase them any further - I don’t think pushing separatism from culture, unhappiness or religion even higher is a good solution.
What I really need is an additional option in the game files that allows separatism to scale by % from population. That would give me the flexibility to increase separatism meaningfully without distorting my existing balance - and it would be very much appreciated

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

I’d like to argue this point from a historical perspective rather than a gameplay one. China, as we know it today, is considered a single nation, but historically its territory was home to many different peoples speaking completely different languages. There were around 80 distinct ethnic groups before they were gradually assimilated.

That is only true up to the Han dynasty at most, really. Qin (very famously) and Han really went to town on cultural assimilation (up to and including genocide), so in the Three Kingdoms era and later periods of disunity, one can basically consider the participants to be majorly culturally Han on all sides, even if local cultures remained present in the periphery to a certain extent (Liao/Song case might also qualify, but foreign culture was extrinsic in Liao case, the population they ruled over was not that much different from Southern Song; same can be said about Northern and Southern Dynasties - the cultural differences only really affected the elites, and were extrinsic in the Northern case).

What I really need is an additional option in the game files that allows separatism to scale by % from population. That would give me the flexibility to increase separatism meaningfully without distorting my existing balance - and it would be very much appreciated

I'll keep a mental note of that.

 

[yurv3]

Some civilizations have special units that can explore the territories of other countries without a treaty of open borders. For example, the Polish Lisovchiki or the Nogai Raiders. It would be great to have the ability to destroy such proxies without declaring war. Another suggestion, but this is for the next version of the mod, is to add a unit class called the Wagon Train. It should provide logistical and medical support. After a certain number of turns, it should disappear.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Ran some more tests recently, and wanted to share an AI win by space race in the year 2001 after surviving a nuclear war. Seems the pacing, at least on default settings, is more or less spot on, which is encouraging.

Some civilizations have special units that can explore the territories of other countries without a treaty of open borders. For example, the Polish Lisovchiki or the Nogai Raiders. It would be great to have the ability to destroy such proxies without declaring war.

All civilizations have a naval unit capable of the same, which doesn't get any special treatment. I'm not sure it's that much of a big deal to specifically do anything about it.

Another suggestion, but this is for the next version of the mod, is to add a unit class called the Wagon Train. It should provide logistical and medical support. After a certain number of turns, it should disappear.

Not before AI understands and actively uses the logistics system.

 

[AspiringScholar]

Not only is that space odyssey encouragingly spot on, it's also symbolically iconic.

Highlights from that game would be cool to see!

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Sorry, already discarded, but also mildly regretting not taking a screenshot of the ship launching from a fallout-riddled territory...

 

[Takofloppa]

I guess some neighbour had a good reason to nuke them that much, considering that at least in theory AI should consider retaliation before pushing that red button first

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

The map by that time was divided between two great power blocs, and judging by fallout presence, the feeling was mutual (I have no idea who shot first though).

 

[AspiringScholar]

The map by that time was divided between two great power blocs, and judging by fallout presence, the feeling was mutual (I have no idea who shot first though).

Was there no Nonaligned Movement being quietly unassuming in the middle?

EDIT: Also, wishing a Happy Thanksgiving to all of my fellow RI compatriots here, and nevertheless by all measure an enjoyable day in the company of family or friends even to those who don't specifically observe the holiday!

 

[tebriz]

“Disabled vanilla mechanic that lowered the cost of tech if any civs you knew already had it”

This is such a good change in the latest SVN! I didn’t even know this vanilla option was enabled. I’m thinking of lowering my technology cost by around 10% in my next game.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Was there no Nonaligned Movement being quietly unassuming in the middle?

Nope, being neutral was not an option in this particular reality. All in all, it should have been pretty grim living there, and I can see why they opted to get off the planet eventually.

“Disabled vanilla mechanic that lowered the cost of tech if any civs you knew already had it”

This is such a good change in the latest SVN! I didn’t even know this vanilla option was enabled. I’m thinking of lowering my technology cost by around 10% in my next game.

Well, to be frank, I haven't noticed any serious impact on the tech progress speed after I disabled it, to the point where I didn't touch the existing balance at all as the result. But all in all, it was simply unneeded when we had a more in-depth tech transfer mechanic, and messed with the interface to boot, as whoever implemented it in vanilla made no effort to provide any kind of UI indication, and it resulted in the cost of the tech you're researching divided by your total research output giving you the wrong number of turns to research (something that has been reported a couple of times before, but I could have never guessed it's a vanilla issue of lazy UI design).

 

[[Y]]

On large maps, tech progress is now (rev 5538) very fast. Ancient era is over in the blink of an eye (one tech every 7-8 or so turns), and Islam is founded in BC years.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

What are the game settings?

 

[[Y]]

What are the game settings?

Hope you don't mind a screen shot.

Spoiler :

Ah, giant, not large. I always get the two mixed up.

Here's what the turns-to-research are for the ancient techs on turn 1. 8 turns for each of the first run of techs, and usually once you get some growth, the later techs don't take much longer to research.

Spoiler :

 

[tebriz]

On large maps, tech progress is now (rev 5538) very fast. Ancient era is over in the blink of an eye (one tech every 7-8 or so turns), and Islam is founded in BC years.

Same for me when I use the default settings - that’s why I increased the base tech cost. Ideally, the first few technologies should take around 10-11 turns to research.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Hope you don't mind a screen shot.
Spoiler :

Ah, giant, not large. I always get the two mixed up.

Pretty far from default settings, but at least it's not a custom 100500x100500 size, so I could actually run a hands-off and test myself replicating your exact settings. I don't generally measure tech progress through Islam (as it's very dependent on particular leaders' favourites), but here's from my first hands-off test:

Spoiler big screenshot :

Pretty reasonable I'd say. By my own metrics, the tech progress at turns 1000, 1250 and 1500 was almost ideal. Of course it's n=1, as giant maps take freaking forever to autorun. Also, as I previously mentioned, I am not quite sure if AI autoplay doesn't skew the results one way or the other, but I don't really have any other way of generating a decent number of runs with different options.

Here's what the turns-to-research are for the ancient techs on turn 1. 8 turns for each of the first run of techs, and usually once you get some growth, the later techs don't take much longer to research.

Given how I relatively recently made early techs cheaper, I'd say it's pretty par the course. Definitely not something to balance other techs against, as they will all be relatively more expensive.

 

[Takofloppa]

I don't care too much about in-game years or when particular techs happen (within reason) since I don't treat Civ as a simulation of our timeline, although I kind of liked when these first techs were a bit more expensive so I could enjoy that wild world slightly longer - but it's something I will probably just somehow adjust for myself when I find these modifiers.

 

[Plains-Cow]

How can I install this on Linux using Bottles or some other form of installer? I have other mods working, but this doesn't allow me to navigate to the Mods folder in BtS or for me to unpack the files in another location and cut-paste them into the Mods folder. The "next" button is just unclickable.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

How can I install this on Linux using Bottles or some other form of installer? I have other mods working, but this doesn't allow me to navigate to the Mods folder in BtS or for me to unpack the files in another location and cut-paste them into the Mods folder. The "next" button is just unclickable.

You don't navigate to "Mods", you navigate to where the Civ4BeyondSword.exe is ("Civ4/Beyond the Sword" in your case).

 

[Plains-Cow]

You don't navigate to "Mods", you navigate to where the Civ4BeyondSword.exe is ("Civ4/Beyond the Sword" in your case).

Fixed! I did just that, and now it loads just fine. I installed it in the folder that SAYS "Beyond the Sword" because it contains the .exe file to launch Beyond the Sword, and I did not try to install it in the Mods folder. Now I can finally try the mod out on Linux!

Are there ways to change the text sharpness? Sometimes it looks a bit blurry around the edges.