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Realism vs symbolism - or why Civilization isn't a Paradox game

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by JtW, May 29, 2016.

  1. m15a

    m15a Emperor

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    Yeah, in that case, I do agree that Civ's tactical nature over the whole series breaks people's immersion. But personally, I don't think Civ should be completely non-tactical or completely tactical. I think the community of gamers settled on Civ in part because it's somewhere in between - it has a little bit of combat, a little bit of empire building, a little bit of roleplaying, etc. It's what makes the game appealing to a mainstream (gasp!) audience.

    However, a side effect of the popularity and uniqueness of Civ is that a lot of gamers play Civ despite preferring something more extreme just because it's popularity means that more people know about it than other games or because those "ideal" games don't exist and wouldn't be economically feasible to make.
     
  2. TRoosevelt

    TRoosevelt Chieftain

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    I never said anything about ASCII characters anywhere. Why would anybody talk about using ASCII characters in a game with the processing power that computers have today? The unit graphics in CIV V are good enough for the kind of game that CIV is. It's the new leaderhead graphics that I take exception to. How much time was spent on them versus on a better functioning AI? The same AI that everyone gripes about now in CIV V?

    I know CIV is a great game, and a great franchise, but I'm not the only one who thinks more could be done to make it better. I just hope that they playtest CIV VI to death, because someday I want to be talking about CIV VII. Hope springs eternal!! ;)
     
  3. nyyfootball

    nyyfootball Warlord

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    #DwarfFortress

    #ASCIIwillKillYourCPU
     
  4. LDiCesare

    LDiCesare Deity

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    I want immersion.
    Realism helps immersion, but it does not matter that much.
    The problem is when you expect something and cannot do it. This breaks immersion and kills the game.

    For instance: I want to play the Frecnh Revolution. I Could in Civ IV, cannot with civ V so I feel let down. I want to raze a capital city (say, Babylon, as it historically no longer exists), and am denied it: I feel let down.
    There is also a case when things feel TOO gamey, like one city providing more food than all the farms and fisheries it can build. This again breaks immersion.

    So, I want realism to a certain level. I don't mind if stuff are streamlined, but sometimes it becomes ridiculous, or I can no longer do something that I feel is important, so the symbolism is lost to me and I can't play.
     
  5. SilverKnight06

    SilverKnight06 Chieftain

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    I vote symbolism. This is why Civ has a better fanbase than Europa. You can change it the way you want it to be.
    P.S. You should really make this a poll.
     
  6. dexters

    dexters Gods & Emperors Supporter

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    I'm not in the EU community, but out of curiosity, what makes Civ fanbase better than EU fanbase?
     
  7. JtW

    JtW Prince

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    I see it as a spectrum, and I think Civilization wouldn't be what it is without a healthy dose of realism - which is why I didn't think to make it a poll.

    Also: why do you think Civ has a better fanbase? I think the Paradox forums are a rather pleasant place to be.
     
  8. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Deity

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    Civilization clearly has bigger fanbase.

    I've tried playing EU, but even though I like history, it wasn't enough for me to compensate messy gameplay. So inside me I totally understand why Civ fanbase is bigger :)
     
  9. Thormodr

    Thormodr Servant of Civ Supporter

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    There some great people on the Paradox forums and especially the EU forums. There are, likewise, some great people on various Civilization forums including this one.

    I don't think Civilization has a better fan base. Bigger, perhaps, but not better. :)
     
  10. JtW

    JtW Prince

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    He didn't say bigger. He said better....
     
  11. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Deity

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    Well, that's quite subjective :)
     
  12. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    The community holds itself and the game it discusses to a higher standard in Civ.

    Also, stuff like Europa isn't even close to realistic. It's more so than Civ in that you start on a world map with relatively close-to-real start positions (though there's some funny business with starting wars, starting cores etc). The moment you unpause, the realism tanks.
     
  13. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    LDICesare pretty much nailed it.
     
  14. rastak

    rastak Emperor

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    Hearts of Iron 4 seems very realistic. Quill18 as Italy has now defeated France, the entire African continent, all of the Middle East, Turkey, Balkans, mopping up Iran. He plans to take all of India. I love historical games full of immersion. Assuming lots of buttons = immersion.
     
  15. dexters

    dexters Gods & Emperors Supporter

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    One thing I don't like about Paradox strategy games, they're very much scenario set pieces and not open sandboxes.

    Playing a game with set factions isn't why I play Civ.
     
  16. rastak

    rastak Emperor

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    Stellaris breaks this mold. It has issues but it's a great game which will only get better.
     
  17. Westwall

    Westwall Emperor

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    Maybe after a few patches and expansions.

    Right now it's buggy and bland with no real endgame in mind.
     
  18. JtW

    JtW Prince

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    I quite like it. Once they properly implement internal revolts, it will be a great game.
     

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