Realpolitik 2 - Novus Ordo Seclorum(Beta)
- Thread starter Lighthearter
- Start date
arya126
Squad Leader
And so you want to undermine the power of the governors? Is that it? You want to take total control of the government. This is a violation of the Russian Constitution created by Lighthearter. The law and order is under the control of the judicial system, which as the crime took place in the district of novgorod, this crime belongs in the court system of said district.
Plus nuke, she would not be in my hands directly. I would just have some say over what is done with her. She is already in a government supervised facility in novgorod, owned by the "state" as Sonereal puts it. Moving her to Moscow would give you NO benefit.
Plus nuke, she would not be in my hands directly. I would just have some say over what is done with her. She is already in a government supervised facility in novgorod, owned by the "state" as Sonereal puts it. Moving her to Moscow would give you NO benefit.
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Her crime was a crime against the government and the State. Therefore, she should be tried in the state capitol. We're not several city-states banded together. Assassination attempts against single members of government is an attack against the government itself. Its only fitting that those responsible be moved and tried in the capital.
Churchill's Hat
Mortal
We have already seen how easy it was for French agents to get into the heart of Novgorod, we are lucky we caught them when we did. Wouldn't it be more secure to keep them in Moscow?
Sparthage
Fighting Tyranny
A Question: Where did the assassination attempt on Arya take place? I'd assume it was in Novgorod, but I would like confirmation.
Churchill's Hat
Mortal
They tried to burn down the town hall in the last governor's election while NinjaCow, arya126, and an NPC were waiting for the election results. And yes, it was in Novgorod.
arya126
Squad Leader
Um...no. They tried to kill us, they failed, and a martial arts capable janitor stopped them from escaping. There was no fire stuff. Thats Athers in RP1. Not in Russia. In Russia, we kill, we dont burn.
No, her crime was committed in Novgorod, and is therefore a crime against the government in that city. Just like the federal government cant tell the city what to build, it cant control how we handle our criminals.
LH what happens if they demand extraction of the criminal, and I, the governor, resists? Would it be taken to court (like IRL where the states are trying to repeal the feds health care (just an anology, dont bring RL politics into this)), or would it be treated as a criminal offense such as treason with the result of me being the target of an arrest warrant?
No, her crime was committed in Novgorod, and is therefore a crime against the government in that city. Just like the federal government cant tell the city what to build, it cant control how we handle our criminals.
LH what happens if they demand extraction of the criminal, and I, the governor, resists? Would it be taken to court (like IRL where the states are trying to repeal the feds health care (just an anology, dont bring RL politics into this)), or would it be treated as a criminal offense such as treason with the result of me being the target of an arrest warrant?
Lighthearter
President of the United States
Well now - that would depend on the admin. I would take it to be a court issue if I was president, but the President makes the call. If you try and Aysee wants to make a fight of it then that's what'll happen. Just depends on if the admin wants to negotiate.
-L
-L
arya126
Squad Leader
Well Aysee. Do you trust the law to uphold you in this? You wanna try this in court? if you dont i will scream unconstitutional until you have to resign and hand over the reigns to me. The poeople will demand it. My speeches can be persuasive.
Nukeknockout
Rusty Hinge
honestly, I don't know what to think. on the one hand, sending it to the courts sets a dangerous precedent where any old loon can challenge the central government, on the other hand, arresting him could make certain mentally deficient personages see us as the bad guy
Churchill's Hat
Mortal
They started with trying to set fire, and then attacked the candidates.
Sonereal is right. The attack, an attack on a member of the government is an attack on the government itself. We will show the foreign states that we are a strong state by mobilizing the entire government apparatus to deal with this threat. By holding and trying her in Moscow, the capital of the nation, we are showing the foreign nations that we are not afraid to use our full power to deal with enemies.
arya126
Squad Leader
I declare that any military unit that follows orders to escort this criminal to moscow will be branded a traitor in the city of novgorod. This is not right. He is undermining the power of governors, and forcing the decisions of the state on everyone else. This is a federalist government. The state must share power with the cities, and the cities with the districts. Even if it is not unconstitutional, this is not the way our founding fathers meant this to be run. Stop the tyrants!
I now put the prison in Novgorod holding her under the highest security possible, with its own military unit standing guard. Nobody is to come out, and nobody but me and the leader of the miltary unit is going in. If anyone from the government wants to brand me a traitor, go ahead. I am still the governor of novgorod, and I believe I still have their support, especially in this. You are taking too much power Aysee.
And a warning: Aysee dont escalate this. You know how much damage it will do to this nation. We dont need this. Stand down from this one issue. Dont infringe on the power of governors.
I now put the prison in Novgorod holding her under the highest security possible, with its own military unit standing guard. Nobody is to come out, and nobody but me and the leader of the miltary unit is going in. If anyone from the government wants to brand me a traitor, go ahead. I am still the governor of novgorod, and I believe I still have their support, especially in this. You are taking too much power Aysee.
And a warning: Aysee dont escalate this. You know how much damage it will do to this nation. We dont need this. Stand down from this one issue. Dont infringe on the power of governors.
Nukeknockout
Rusty Hinge
closed/ Arya, you fool! you blind, closed-minded fool! "Way our founding Fathers meant the nation to be run"? hahahahahahaha....only in the USA can you get away with such a ridiculous argument. That's right, I'm laughing you off the stage. /closed
"People of Novgorod! You may know me as Nukeknockout, former President and leader of the Lunar Shadow Party. Lord Arya has chosen to defy the administration. I do not know how our president will react to this insane move. I ask the citizens of Novgorod to ask Lord Arya to stop this! Lord Arya is arguing in favor of transforming Russia into a collection of city-states instead of the united republic it is and must be! Russia must be united, with allegiance to the nation instead of the city! Russia must be united or such great powers as Stockholm and Helsinki will take us apart, never mind the mighty Roman Juggernaut, or God Forbid, the French! We have to stop this before it starts!"
-Nukeknockout
Vice President
"People of Novgorod! You may know me as Nukeknockout, former President and leader of the Lunar Shadow Party. Lord Arya has chosen to defy the administration. I do not know how our president will react to this insane move. I ask the citizens of Novgorod to ask Lord Arya to stop this! Lord Arya is arguing in favor of transforming Russia into a collection of city-states instead of the united republic it is and must be! Russia must be united, with allegiance to the nation instead of the city! Russia must be united or such great powers as Stockholm and Helsinki will take us apart, never mind the mighty Roman Juggernaut, or God Forbid, the French! We have to stop this before it starts!"
-Nukeknockout
Vice President
Lighthearter
President of the United States
Well, I just tested my Civil War rules.
Turns out FireTuner won't let me do what I want
AR or nothin' if you're wanting something like that. I'll try to arrange it in ciV.
And Arya/Aysee - if you want to make a fight of this there are ways I can simulate THAT, too . . . .
-L
Turns out FireTuner won't let me do what I want
AR or nothin' if you're wanting something like that. I'll try to arrange it in ciV.And Arya/Aysee - if you want to make a fight of this there are ways I can simulate THAT, too . . . .
-L
We're not breaking the law. I have the Word of God that YOU Arya don't have a leg to stand on.
And besides, this isn't America. There's no "way our founding father's intended the country to be run" type of junk. This is Russia, and in Soviet Russia--never mind.
Yeah. Basically this move will transform us into a loose collection of city-states. A federation cannot stand against the winds of history. A centralized Republic can.
And how am I infringing on the rights of Governors? Do you see me ordering him what to do or not to do? Do you see me counter-acting his orders on how the city should be run? NO! I am merely moving a criminal, who commited a Federal crime against the government, to a more secure facility in the capital. It's Arya who's acting insanely.
:closed: And besides, the criminal has already been moved. It's too late to do anything. The soldiers escorting her are regular army soldiers from St. Petersburg and Moscow, anyways.:closed:
EDIT: The legal expert for the Foundation Party has just released this statement:
Therefore, as one can see, It is not the government, but Arya who is infringing on other's rights. Governor's have no authority to do any of the things that Lord Arya is trying. People of Russia, it is time we see this whole "debate" as what it is: Nothing more than a blatant power grab by arya126. The whole reason he brought this up was so, failing to win a federal position, he could carve out his own fiefdom in Novgorod; under which he would reign as a virtual dictator, with no obligation from the Federal government.
People of Novogorod, you know better than this! Prove that you will not follow down this destructive path! Do not support this governor of your's. People of Novgorod, you are intellectuals, scientists, students, the future of Russia! Show the world that we are better than this. Soldiers of Russia, do not follow his orders! Your loyalty is not to a particular person, nor to the opposition, the government, or a particular city. Your loyalty is to the country! The series of actions taken by Arya will undermine this country we hold dear, sending it into anarchy, or civil war. Do you want this?!
And besides, this isn't America. There's no "way our founding father's intended the country to be run" type of junk. This is Russia, and in Soviet Russia--never mind.
Yeah. Basically this move will transform us into a loose collection of city-states. A federation cannot stand against the winds of history. A centralized Republic can.
And how am I infringing on the rights of Governors? Do you see me ordering him what to do or not to do? Do you see me counter-acting his orders on how the city should be run? NO! I am merely moving a criminal, who commited a Federal crime against the government, to a more secure facility in the capital. It's Arya who's acting insanely.
:closed: And besides, the criminal has already been moved. It's too late to do anything. The soldiers escorting her are regular army soldiers from St. Petersburg and Moscow, anyways.:closed:
EDIT: The legal expert for the Foundation Party has just released this statement:
Therefore, as one can see, It is not the government, but Arya who is infringing on other's rights. Governor's have no authority to do any of the things that Lord Arya is trying. People of Russia, it is time we see this whole "debate" as what it is: Nothing more than a blatant power grab by arya126. The whole reason he brought this up was so, failing to win a federal position, he could carve out his own fiefdom in Novgorod; under which he would reign as a virtual dictator, with no obligation from the Federal government.
People of Novogorod, you know better than this! Prove that you will not follow down this destructive path! Do not support this governor of your's. People of Novgorod, you are intellectuals, scientists, students, the future of Russia! Show the world that we are better than this. Soldiers of Russia, do not follow his orders! Your loyalty is not to a particular person, nor to the opposition, the government, or a particular city. Your loyalty is to the country! The series of actions taken by Arya will undermine this country we hold dear, sending it into anarchy, or civil war. Do you want this?!
arya126
Squad Leader
OOC: No AR! That would be disatrous for Russia! Aysee you-!
IC: People of Russia! People of Novgorod! Are you to believe this person's lies about how I want civil war? This is preposterous! I am of the Defense party! The only thing Russia would gain from such a conflict, is a weakened defense. that makes no sense. I am merely making a stand for the rights of the governors, cities, and districts of this fine country! We cant let the federal government push us around. They are taking too much power.
And to answer Aysee- Yes i cant command the whole military units that are under command of the military ministers in Moscow. But i do have command of the police forces stationed in the city to protect against crime. By military, I assumed everybody would know i meant military police. It seems you guys arent the brightest cabinent that we have had.
Virtual dictator? All I want is to be able to have control over the city that the people elected me in charge of. I want to serve justice. I want to serve the people of this fine city. And yet, the bigwigs in Moscow are refusing me this.
As to your claim of a federal crime, the crime was actually committed at the city level, and so it should remain at the city level in the courts. I still wish to press charges for the attempt on my life.
IC: People of Russia! People of Novgorod! Are you to believe this person's lies about how I want civil war? This is preposterous! I am of the Defense party! The only thing Russia would gain from such a conflict, is a weakened defense. that makes no sense. I am merely making a stand for the rights of the governors, cities, and districts of this fine country! We cant let the federal government push us around. They are taking too much power.
And to answer Aysee- Yes i cant command the whole military units that are under command of the military ministers in Moscow. But i do have command of the police forces stationed in the city to protect against crime. By military, I assumed everybody would know i meant military police. It seems you guys arent the brightest cabinent that we have had.
Virtual dictator? All I want is to be able to have control over the city that the people elected me in charge of. I want to serve justice. I want to serve the people of this fine city. And yet, the bigwigs in Moscow are refusing me this.
As to your claim of a federal crime, the crime was actually committed at the city level, and so it should remain at the city level in the courts. I still wish to press charges for the attempt on my life.
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When you defy the federal government by putting your guard units on military alert, you're pushing for a civil war. The federal government isn't pushing you around. The criminal commited a crime against the government, not just you personally, so stop trying to put yourself above all of Russia.
The assassin committed a crime against RUSSIA. Therefore, its only fitting the criminal be tried in the CAPITAL of RUSSIA.
What was your military police going to do? Military police aren't meant to go toe to toe with military units in open combat. By putting military, police or not, around the prison, you're challenging the federal government.
We serve the people of all of Russia. They elected us to protect and serve Russia, not just individual cities. Your assassin committed a crime against the State, therefore, they will be tried in the State Capital. Simple as that.
You can come to Moscow if you want to press charges. The crime is a federal crime because you're the governor, a federal employee if you will because the Administration is still your superior. The next level above you is us which means the assassin will be tried in Moscow and if need be, executed in Moscow.
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