Discussion in 'Civ5 - Stories & Let's Plays' started by Lighthearter, Mar 10, 2011.
Why don't you keep the guild as it is. I, personally, see it not as bad as you make it seem.
Oh, so we should have a completely unregulated body of assassins running around? I can see how that idea would go over so well.
It's odd that you call government regulation of the Guild unwarranted intrusion, but advocate a limit on their activities--something that by its nature is regulation.
And complete prohibition is not the answer either. A body dedicated to carrying out assassinations can be a useful asset. But the only way that it can be completely safe is if it were nationalized.
Ok, not what i meant, during terms, regulated by the government on external problems, during election, it acts as it normally acts.
I agree with redspy so far.
That's the problem. If we let it act as it normally acts during elections, what we get is people assassinating their political rivals with little fear of reprisal. This is the fundamental problem with the Assassins Guild, that it lets people off their enemies, with guaranteed anonymity, too!
The Assassins Guild can be useful, but the only way it could is through direct nationalization.
"Direct nationalization" is just another term of taking privately owned corporations and organizations, and putting them under government control. Another word for it is Socialism.
Get your concepts right, Plebeian. Socialism is the idea that all men, women, and children are equal, and that there is a moral responsibility to not let them starve. That's the basic message of Socialism. Socialism has nothing to do with taking over industries, unless said industries get in the way of the primary message.
Consider "Communism" might be what you are looking for, even though it isn't Communism in this situation, nor is Communism necessarily bad.
"Direct Nationalization" is taking over organizations that are deemed too dangerous to be privately owned. You wouldn't let a private company assemble nuclear bombs, or a citizen manufacture assault rifles. So it makes sense for the government to completely take over industries, or better yet, be the only one allowed to start industries and never allowed to own less than 51% of the shares of said industries, that have the potential to threaten national stability.
Honestly, you sound like Glen Beck or Sarah Palin. At least show enough respect for your position, the public, your fellow politicians, and yourself to get your facts straight.
I love how polarized things have gotten.
The new parties are getting amusing especially as like many have said they seem to be only spin off's with no original "spice". The MOAR party looks the most promising for long term running, The only other neutral party is the guild and we've stirred up enough controversy that i don't think we count anymore.
I'm still waiting for a "Truth Party" that despises lies, "Pacifist Parties" or something new.
People seem confused over terminology:
There is a difference between Regulation, Legalizing and Nationalization.
Regulation would have the Guild be loyal to whoever was in power but once election is on and things are in limbo the guild would only take a limited number of jobs.
Legalizing would have the guild be legal to be privately owned, do whatever it wanted and answerable only to public opinion.
Nationalization would force the guild into working for the government and make the guild into a living weapon to aim at the enemies of the nation.
Even after deciding the future of the guild decisions need to be made about Independent people using assassinations like Sonereal and Arya.
@Dem Taqat; Please don't state that there is a conflict between the guild and Sonereal. The GUILD has not struck back despite Sonereal's provocation and genocide like actions. If there is a conflict at the moment it is between Arya and Sonereal. Leave us out of this untill the Government actually makes a legally binding decision.
Ravus, I am a pacifist party.
I'm afraid i've naturally grouped you into the "spin off" groups. Your party comes of as socialist first, pacifist second. Would you give up on all your socialist values if it gained you a peaceful world?
Here's how I see things at a glance,
Imperialism First, War Second
People's Party of America
Communism First, Expansion second
Insanely Mad Warmongers' Party
War First, Money&Science for making war second
Philosophic Party of America
Science First, Socialism Second
Assassinations First, Political influence second
The Nations Happiness First, Culture second
Red Dove Party
Socialist First, Pacifist Second
Moderate First, Welfare of people second
National Workers Socialist Party
Socialism First, Defending the Nation second
NOTE: I gave the still being discussed merger of Amerisoc & Extra-Socialist Workers the above name. I'll probably end up calling it the Workers Party for short hand anyway.
There is a conflict, and it does involve the Guild. If Sonereal is attacking the guild and it's supporters, that is a conflict. If Arya and Mech are striking back, that is a conflict. Just because they aren't working on your orders didn't make them less part of the guild. Its also a conflict of Ideals, over whether the guilds existance is moral. Just because you are trying not to escalate it doesn't make it any less a conflict.
Direct Nationalism is a good idea. As long as it doesnt evolve into a organisation that suppresses the opposition. Just use them for assassinations of criminal and foreign leaders.
Conflict needs two sides both equally attacking the other. Arya has left the guild and i believe mech was only included in his narrative to make it sounds bigger. Arya is not part of the guild.
I will say it again.
ARYA IS NOT PART OF THE GUILD
The minute he took action he lost his guild status.
I am sure Sonereal is still fighting for the execution of Assassins legally but the Guild is making no moves on the government. We are actually just existing. And if existing can cause a conflict then it is due to the person being offended by us, not from us existing.
Concerning the Assassins Guild:
A government that wishes to regulate the guild may find it very difficult to. This is because they can just assassinate those who wish to force them into a position they would rather not deal with.
The government cannot legalize the guild because then that government is legalizing killing for political gain. This would not be a government that will last long.
The government cannot nationalize the guild because it would become the enforcement agency of the government. This would be like "brown shirts" running around killing at the behest of the governing. The opposition and independents would not stand for such use, and ultimately I believe you have a revolution on your hands.
The guild must remain as it is. An independent entity that illegally kills for profit and political gain. Based on this, it should be illegal to act on guild orders, hence why the organization should remain secret and in the shadows. Guild leaders should be very careful about who they recruit, how they recruit, and when they engage in actions. Because I would be against any government that forms coalitions with this organized crime unit.
If the AG "becomes an integrated part of the government" that would kill your whole point of taking down foreign enemies due to us being integrated into the government. They could easily trace it back to our government, and if that is not what you mean then you must mean turning the AG into a military unit, and turning a political party into a military unit doesn't sound like it would look very good to other people.(whoever "other" is) I mean, turning a political party into a military unit, how would that make our country look?
better than one that allows murderers roam the street
This entire argument amuses me.
My opinion: nationalize the guild. Problem solved.
Well, I decided to do something quite similar to ravus list, and create a list showing my impressions about each Party.
When I put it like that there seem to be an awfully large amount of parties with fairly moderate views, although most have their own little Bias.
As to the Big Guild debate, I do not feel that nationalization of the guild is appropriate. The government doesn't need assassins in this country, and assassinations against another country are best done by independants. There is also the fact that such nationalization would effectively destroy its position as a political party, and give it a very different position to the rest of us.
OCC: Like the link there, DT. Especially Black Cat Detective, if you are ever surprised by this then you do not know how to read...
Separate names with a comma.