Realpolitik's PBEM Thread

Whosit

Entropic Knight
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This is the thread for RP1 players who have expressed interest in trying a Play-By-E-Mail game. So if you're not in RP (located here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=362995), you can't join the PBEM, but maybe you'd like to check out the original game. Now then, on to business.

Since I know that many of the players are unfamiliar with the PBEM format, I'll attempt to give a quick run-down of how it works. I intend to use PBEM Tracker to assist in organizing our game, so go ahead and sign up if you don't have an account:

http://pbemtracker.com/

This game will be BTS, current patch (3.19 I believe), with no game-altering mods allowed. This includes BUG, BUFFY, HoF, etc. The only legal mods are things like Blue Marble which do nothing but add graphical changes. So make sure you have a clean 3.19 install on your machine.

Alright, so with that out of the way, what is PBEM? It's a form of Civilization multiplayer, which functions much like Single Player in that turns are played sequentially. Main difference is that your opponents are living, thinking human beings instead of AI. Civ IV is designed with PBEM in mind. You can access PBEM saves by going to your Multiplayer menu, selecting Play By E-mail, and loading the appropriate save. Where does the save come from? E-mail! (Or, in our case, PBEM Tracker.) When you download the save, you will need to put it in your Multiplayer/PBEM save game folder. This is probably in your My Games/Civ IV/BTS/Save Games folder, depending on how you installed your game.

So, you load up your save, create/enter a password for your Civ (assuming you want to prevent another player from accessing your saves), and play your turn. When you hit "end turn," CIV creates a folder with the name of the game and automatically creates a save file for the next player. The naming format of these saves is: GameName_GameYear_to_PlayerName.CivBeyondSwordSave.

You will then upload this save file to the PBEM Tracker, which will then automatically update the current turn (it displays which player is currently up). That player then downloads their save, plays, and uploads the next save. Neat little system. Hopefully I have explained this clearly enough. If anyone has questions, just ask.

With the functional rules of PBEM out of the way, I like to take a moment to briefly cover some informal, well, not rules, but stuff you should be aware of. PBEM games take a long time. 1-turn a day is the ideal pace, but in reality, it is considered a fast pace. Once all game settings have been decided, we will determine turn order based on what times players are most likely able to play the save. While it's a known fact that players will miss their scheduled play times at least a few times (if not more), please do not sign up if you do not believe that you can make a steady time commitment to the game for at least several months. Due to the nature of the game, all it takes is one player to stop playing to completely stop the game. On a similar token, keep in mind that this is a competitive multiplayer game. I can tell you from experience that it sucks when you are losing. I hope that we all have great fun, but realize that you may lose the game, but we need everyone to play until the bitter end. Until they add in the "Circle of Friends" victory condition, that's just the nature of the game. :p

OK, so assuming that I haven't scared all of my players away, let's get back to the fun stuff! One of the really nice things about a slow-paced MP game (compared to the almost RTS nature of competitive MP) is that there is time for Diplomacy! The best way to handle this in my experience is by setting up an e-mail account specifically for the game (g-mail accounts are free). I'll be using one such account, but if you don't mind giving out your primary e-mail address, and then having game-related mails flood your in-box, then you don't need an alt-account. :)

Finally, a partially list of who is playing. I got PM confirmation from some; for the rest, I'm relying on my sieve-like memory. PM me, or just post here, if I've forgotten you, or if I've mistakenly added you to the list.

Players
-Whosit (Pacal II/Inca)
-Twinkletoes89 (Elizabeth/Rome)
-Dem Taqat (Hatshepsut/Zulu)
-Aysee (Hannibal/Egypt)
-Nukeknockout (Washington/Mali)
-Ravus_Sol (Roosevelt/Sumeria)

E-mail
Spoiler :
Whosit: whosit.03 @ gmail . com
Twinkletoes89: JBtwinkletoes89 @ gmail . com
Dem Taqat: demtaqat @ gmail . com
Aysee: byebluemon @ gmail . com
Nukeknockout: Drashgorth @ citynet . net
Ravus_Sol: RavusSol @ Gmail.com
 
As you may imagine, we need to make some decisions on game settings and rules. Once all players have checked in, we'll vote on applicable settings, then I'll roll the map, and we play! Each player must vote on each issue (but are allowed to Abstain if they really don't care); I will probably save my votes for last, though.

#1: Map Type
This one is the most nebulous. We do not have a dedicated map-maker, so we'll have to take whatever the game rolls. What kind of map script do we want? I would err on the side of something that is either one landmass, or islands. Problem with Continents is that it can take a long time for a player to meet everyone, and is more likely to come into conflict with those who share the continent. Possible options:
-Pangaea
-Archipelago
-Islands
-Highlands
-Lakes
-Other?

#2: Game Speed
-Quick
-Normal

Keep in mind the expected pace of the game when you vote.

#3: Restricted/Unrestricted Leaders
Unrestricted Leaders allows players to "mix-n-match" leaders and civilizations, creating a great deal of flexibility and customization. Restricted uses normal leader/civ pairings, and normal balance.

#4: Tech Trading
Most of you probably play with full tech-trading. This can certainly work in multiplayer, but in my experience, it can artificially increase the speed of the game. No tech brokering means that you cannot trade a tech you yourself have received in trade. It protects that original techer, in that sense. No tech trading means that your tech progress is completely dependent on your CIV skills.

-No Trade Restrictions
-No Tech Brokering
-No Tech Trading

#5: Game Difficulty
Why does difficulty matter if we have no AI? Difficulty affects things such as tech prices, maintenance costs, and rate of Barbarian spawning. It may also affect what leaders/civs you pick, to some degree. (We will not go below Noble, which is the "standard" difficulty level.)

-Noble
-Prince
-Monarch
-Emperor
-Immortal
-Deity

#6: Huts
Huts add a random element into the game.

-Huts Enabled
-Huts Disabled

#7: Random Events
Random events present an even greater element of randomness and chance into the game. In this case, I won't pretend to be neutral: I highly recommend that events are disabled, but I will still put it up to vote.

-Events Enabled
-Events Disabled

#8: Barbarians

-Barbarians Enabled
-Barbarians Disabled
-Barbarians Raging

#9: Permanent Alliances
These are probably also a very unbalancing factor.

-Alliances Enabled
-Alliances Disabled

#10: Vassals
Can be interesting in MP. Keep in mind that in a game with lots of off-shore territory, keeping Vassals on means that you get colonial maintenance for "colonies."

-Vassals Enabled
-Vassals Disabled

#11: Espionage
From my understanding, Spies are generally considered unbalanced units by the MP community. However, I'm sure some people are looking forward to using them. So, let's have a vote. No restrictions means that you can do anything with espionage as allowed by the game. No Espionage Missions means that you may build Spy units, but you may not carry out missions with them (you still apply Espionage Points against players to see graphs, cities, ect.). No Spies means you cannot build Spy units (but can, of course, use passive espionage).

-No restrictions
-No Espionage Missions
-No Spies

#12: War Elephants
Another unit considered a bit unbalanced, due to its high strength, and the fact that whether a player has Ivory or not is due to luck. If they are disabled, this means that you may still connect Ivory, but you must not build WEs.

-War Elephants Allowed
-War Elephants Banned

#13 Unit Gifting
Sometimes, you find yourself in a situation where you want to gift units to another player: Maybe to aid them in a war, or as part of peace trade. That's fine. But sometimes this can be exploitative. One major exploit is gifting a unit with 10+ XP to another Player in order to allow them to build the Heroic Epic. This is frowned upon, but it will be put to a vote.

-No Restrictions
-May not Gift HE-Enabling unit to a Player who does not qualify for the HE

#14 City Gifting
Another possible point of contention as well as exploitation. The option of No Restrictions means just that: You may gift cities to other players at any time and under any circumstances. The Good Faith option includes the following: No temporary city gifting--it is considered exploitative to gift a city to another player so that they can, for example, build their unique building there, and then have them gift it back. It is also considered poor sportsmanship to gift a large portion of your cities to a third party when under threat of conquest. To illustrate: Civ A is at war with Civ B, and A is winning. To spite A, B gives all their cities to Civ C, a neutral third party, thus preventing A from conquering those cities and gaining the benefit of said conquest. These are just two examples--if we vote for this option, please try to think about if any given trade is fair or exploitative.

-No Restrictions
-Good Faith Gifts Only

#15: Diplomatic Contact
Two fairly clear options. Either is viable, but Restricted is more realistic.

-Unrestricted (may contact any player at any time)
-Must meet player first

#16: Screen Shots
Another element of realism vs. convenience

-Unrestricted
-One party must research Paper before Map Trades/Screen Shots are allowed

I think that is everything, but I will add more items if I think of them or if conversation requires another vote.
 
This space reserved for additional information or any important announcements that need to be made.
 
Hey - that is political bias against people who aren't part of Realpolitik. Guess I have to form my own party (The Rent Is Too Damn High Party) and see if I can get in on this game.
 
I'm interested, I'll be able to access BtS once my computer is formatted (Hopefully maximum at teh weekend)

Alright. We should be able to wait a week longer. Nice to have you aboard! :goodjob:

Hey - that is political bias against people who aren't part of Realpolitik. Guess I have to form my own party (The Rent Is Too Damn High Party) and see if I can get in on this game.

I guess you have a week to become a player. :crazyeye: But, sorry, this was meant to be an exclusive game. Can't just have any ol' riff-raff dropping in. ;)
 
I am interested. The only possible snag is that my schedule changes in spring, and I'm not sure how that will affect me yet.
 
Firstly, checking in!

Secondly:

#1: Map Type

Pangaea - simply because that gives more civs to choose from without disadvantage than an archipelago or islands script.

Though I don't mind Highlands/Lakes/inland sea either.

#2: Game Speed

Quick


#3: Restricted/Unrestricted Leaders

Unrestricted snake pick.

#4: Tech Trading

No Tech Trading 100%

#5: Game Difficulty

- Prince (Raging Barbs)
- Monarch (Normal barbs)

#6: Huts

Huts Disabled

Not too fussed however.

#7: Random Events

Events Disabled 100%

#8: Barbarians

Raging if on Prince
Normal if any higher

#9: Permanent Alliances

Come so late that I'm not fussed, but probably safest to turn them off.

#10: Vassals

Disabled - just needless.

#11: Espionage

No spies but again not fussed.

#12: War Elephants

As we have no mapmaker - WEs banned as having ivory is totally down to luck.

#13 Unit Gifting

-May not Gift HE-Enabling unit to a Player who does not qualify for the HE

#14 City Gifting

I think no city gifting at all. Means people have to conquer it.

#15: Diplomatic Contact

Only after meeting

#16: Screen Shots

Unrestricted.

[/QUOTE]
 
When I say 'Yes', I mean to keep all forms of it.

Map Type

Continents

Speed

Normal

Restricted/Unrestricted Leaders

Unrestricted

Tech Trading

Completly unrestricted

Difficulty

Monarch

Huts

Yes

Events

Yes

Barbs

No

PAs

Yes

Vassals

Yes

Espionage

Yes

Jumbos

Yes

Unit Gifting

Yes

City Gifting

Yes

Diplo Contact

Restricted

Screenshots

Always
 
I'm here!!! :D
DT, Checking in.

Map Type
Fractal or Pangea

Speed
Normal

Resticted/Unrestricted
Unrestricted

Tech trading
Off

Difficulty
Noble (why make it harder?)

Huts
Yes

Events
No (say no to free losing)

Barbs
No

Permanent Alliances
No

Vassels
No

Espionage
Yes (:mwaha:)

Jumbos
Yes

Unit/City Gifting
Yes (Tribute is GOOD)

Diplo Contact
Unrestricted (all the better to plot your downfall with)(I expect Ravus to abuse this system incredibly :p)

Screenshots
Needz Paper (or t' intarwebz, whichever comes first ;))

DT
Preparing His Vanilla Mentality :evil:
Realising there's No BUG :run:
 
I'm in.

Turn everything on; Prince; (Can't we play on Epic?:() Normal
 
I'm in.

Turn everything on; Prince; (Can't we play on Epic?:() Normal

You are certifiably insane in the head if you want to play anything faster than Normal for a multiplayer game. I like CIV as much as the next guy, but I don't want to spend 2 years on one game.

Edit: In case this came off poorly, please note that I consider you insane in the most amiable way possible. :) Also, TT's point on speed.
Maybe I should have been less democratic?
 
With so many players, epic will die out long before we get halfway through the game. It can be annoying enough on quick when you are just opening save, move scout, end turn, send save; let alone having to do that numerous times on epic!

Unless we have a small amount of players (say 4) - quick must be the way forward simply to get the game moving and not last forever.
 
Map Type
Fractal or Pangaea

Speed
Normal

Restricted/Unrestricted
Unrestricted

Tech trading
On

Difficulty
Noble

Huts
Yes

Events
No

Barbs
No

Permanent Alliances
No

Vassels
No

Espionage
No

War Elephants
Yes. They are merely cavalry, and suffer against spears, cost for cost.

Unit/City Gifting
Yes

Diplo Contact
Unrestricted


-Nukeknockout
 
@Aysee- the game has what 1000? turns on Epic. That is 1000 days, just over 2 YEARS of playing, playing every day with no Problems. This is gonna be long enough as it is, don't make it worse.

@Nuke-Ele's aren't actually that vulnerable to spears, once you start adding promotions they actually have the advantage. The thing is, by the time you have Ele's you have Catapults, so you can't complain about Ele's being overpowered. Ele's also require a lot of hammers and beaker investment to be good (HBR+Stables+producing the Nelly's),not to mention needing the rare resource of Ivory, so if you want em, it's gonna cost ya.

DT
Marathon Addict :p
 
exactly. and while you're doing that, I'll be either mass-producing cheap spears with a barracks, or jumping to Pikes using the resources you're spending on Elephants to progress technologically.
 
Hmm... Despite the fact that I've never played on quick before, I guess I'll vote for that then.

Map type Pangaea
 
#1: Map Type
Terra It means the initial island is smaller and yet we have the fun of New World Colonization near the end game to keep everyone on their toes.
If everyone is against this then i guess Pangea will do...

#2: Game Speed
Quick

#3: Restricted/Unrestricted Leaders
Unrestricted. Multiplayer is there to try different things anyway

#4: Tech Trading
Agreed that this can make the game move quickly. It can also cause alliances based on trading, but as long as people are smart and keep track of the tech trading screen they should be able to see these alliances and put political pressure on them to stop.
First option No Restrictions
Second option No Tech Brokering

#5: Game Difficulty
Normal

#6: Huts
-Huts Enabled

#7: Random Events
-Events Disabled

#8: Barbarians
-Barbarians Enabled
Not too much not too little

#9: Permanent Alliances
-Alliances Enabled
Yes they are unbalanced, that the fun. You need to have some agreement and diplomatic ability to get the alliance in the first place.

#10: Vassals
-Vassals Enabled
Useful for Terra Maps.

#11: Espionage
-No restrictions
If you don't like it and can't play the espionage game i guess you better play nice with the Spy Masters. Just like you have to play nice with the Warlords if you can't play the war games.

#12: War Elephants
-War Elephants Allowed
Good spying, reconnaissance and checking of the trade tables will allow you to know when someone has ivory. If you are scared of these units then start making alliances against these Elephant Lords.

#13 Unit Gifting
-No Restrictions
Don't like the trading? Get allies and kick their ass. That's how the real leaders do it and that's how you will have to do it.

#14 City Gifting
-No Restrictions
Don't like it again? Declare war on the person getting involved in your war. This is what defensive pacts are for. I don't like the whole Unique building idea but it should be allowed. After all you could always just not give the cities back...

#15: Diplomatic Contact
-Must meet player first
More realistic. Encourages you to be nice to the newly met so that they direct you in the right direction to meet other people they know.

#16: Screen Shots
Hmmm i suppose screen shots sent to other players shouldn't be allowed. You can allways just describe things or make a quick paint drawing instead of making screen shots.

- Ravus the Innocent Religious Player
 
I have heard good arguments against Terra. In short: Super powers will likely have emerged by the time Astro comes around; those who devote resources to settling new continent will probably get conquered by those who don't.

But most people have been voting Pangaea, or some form of it, so it's probably a moot point.
 
Indeed. Terra SHOULD prompt better diplmoacy as people should try to keep each other in check before the expansion of astro but this rarely works as people arn't trusting in civ and backstabbing comences around turn 100

Pangea it is..

EDIT: So are we picking our own unrestricted civs and leaders? Is it first come first served?
 
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