Rebalancing AI leaders

snarko

DLLer
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RifE has a lot of leaders. They each act like they do, according to their personalities. Except some of them don't. And some of them are playing worse because their personality isn't balanced. So, me and lemonjelly are going to rebalance them. For this we need your help. It's ok if you don't have the slightest clue how to mod, that part we'll handle.

What we need help with is making a list of each leaders personality type. Some are aggressive, others friendly and others yet warmongering religious fanatics who prey on the weak. This depend some on the leader itself, some on the civilization they lead (civilizations doesn't have personalities).

So, know anything about the lore of a leader? Or how they/their civilization should be played? Post, discuss and we'll be adding it to the list. Then once the list is complete we will translate it into code and hopefully release it as part of 1.4.


List as of post #21
Seven leaders has no comments, please look at those first (look for ????)
Feel free to say "no, that leader isn't like that". This is not a final list.
Spoiler List as of post #12 :

<!-- Sabathiel --> <!-- Honourable --> <!-- Hates Different Religion --> <!-- Loves Same Religion --> <!-- Love Same alignment --> <!-- AGGRESSIVE --> <!-- Militaristic -->
<!-- Capria --> <!-- Honourable --> <!-- Hates Evil --> <!-- Hates Different Religion --> <!-- Loves Same Religion --> <!-- AGGRESSIVE --> <!-- Militaristic -->
<!-- Tethira --> <!-- AGGRESSIVE --> <!-- Militaristic -->
<!-- Angaad --> <!-- AGGRESSIVE --> <!-- Hates Evil --> <!-- Militaristic -->
<!-- Gaius Octavius --> <!-- AGGRESSIVE -->
<!-- Decius --> <!-- BRUTAL -->
<!-- Ophelia Rosenthal --> ????
<!-- Varn --> <!-- Friendly -->
<!-- Kane --> <!-- AGGRESSIVE -->
<!-- Ethne --> <!-- Friendly --> <!-- Peaceful -->
<!-- Einion --> <!-- Friendly -->
<!-- Thessalonica --> <!-- Friendly --> <!-- Peaceful -->
<!-- Basium --> <!-- BRUTAL -->
<!-- Garrim --> <!-- Generalist1 -->
<!-- Beeri --> <!-- Generalist2 -->
<!-- Gimil --> <!-- Generalist3 -->
<!-- Letigo --> <!-- Generalist4 -->
<!-- Cardith --> <!-- Friendly --> <!-- Peaceful -->
<!-- Herne --> <!-- AGGRESSIVE -->
<!-- Cheron --> REMOVED
<!-- Yakut --> <!-- Peaceful --> <!-- Treat all alike --> <!-- Religious -->
<!-- Amelanchier --> <!-- Seclusive --> <!-- Peaceful -->
<!-- Arendel --> <!-- Seclusive -->
<!-- Thessa --> <!-- Seclusive -->
<!-- Eldarwen --> REMOVED <!-- Seclusive -->
<!-- Arturus --> <!-- Greedy -->
<!-- Kandros --> <!-- Greedy -->
<!-- Athel --> <!-- Greedy --> <!-- AGGRESSIVE -->
<!-- Reorx --> <!-- Greedy -->
<!-- Sandalphon --> <!-- Seclusive -->
<!-- Mirrough --> REMOVED <!-- Seclusive -->
<!-- Shekinah --> <!-- Seclusive -->
<!-- Falamar --> <!--DOGPILE --> <!-- LIMITED WARS --> <!-- ANY WAR-->
<!-- Hannah --> <!--DOGPILE --> <!-- LIMITED WARS --> <!-- ANY WAR-->
<!-- Casin --> <!--DOGPILE --> <!-- LIMITED WARS --> <!-- ANY WAR-->
<!-- Mordmorgan --> <!--DOGPILE --> <!-- LIMITED WARS --> <!-- ANY WAR-->
<!-- Blackheart --> <!-- AGGRESSIVE --> <!--DOGPILE --> <!-- LIMITED WARS --> <!-- ANY WAR-->
<!-- Cassiel --> <!-- Seclusive --> <!-- Friendly -->
<!-- Goodreau --> <!-- Trader -->
<!-- Koun --> <!-- Peaceful --> <!-- Seclusive -->
<!-- Esirce --> <!-- Science, not military --> <!-- Tolerant -->
<!-- Tasunke --> <!--DOGPILE --> <!-- LIMITED WARS --> <!-- ANY WAR--> <!-- Militaristic -->
<!-- Rhoanna --> <!--DOGPILE --> <!-- LIMITED WARS --> <!-- ANY WAR--> <!-- Militaristic -->
<!-- Ostanes --> <!--DOGPILE --> <!-- LIMITED WARS --> <!-- ANY WAR--> <!-- Militaristic -->
<!-- Uldanor --> <!--DOGPILE --> <!-- LIMITED WARS --> <!-- ANY WAR--> <!-- Militaristic -->
<!-- Valledia --> <!-- Seclusive --> <!-- Backstabber -->
<!-- Dain --> <!-- Seclusive --> <!-- Honourable -->
<!-- Tya --> <!-- Seclusive -->
<!-- Lorelei --> <!-- Seclusive -->
<!-- Naxus --> <!-- Seclusive --> <!-- Power-Mad -->
<!-- Xivan --> <!-- Trecherous -->
<!-- Charadon --> <!-- AGGRESSIVE --> <!-- Close War --> <!-- Militaristic -->
<!-- Mahala --> <!-- Close War --> <!-- Militaristic -->
<!-- Duin2 --> <!-- Close War --> <!-- Militaristic -->
<!-- Keelyn --> <!-- Power-Mad -->
<!-- Perpentach --> <!-- Insane -->
<!-- Weevil --> <!-- BRUTAL -->
<!-- Nojah --> <!-- Trecherous -->
<!-- Furia --> <!-- Insane --> <!-- AGGRESSIVE -->
<!-- Melisandre --> REMOVED <!-- Hates Different Religion -->
<!-- Jonas --> <!-- BRUTAL --> <!-- Militaristic -->
<!-- Sheelba --> <!-- BRUTAL -->
<!-- Hafgan --> <!-- BRUTAL -->
<!-- Faeryl --> <!-- Seclusive --> <!-- Trecherous -->
<!-- Rivanna --> <!-- Seclusive --> <!-- Trecherous -->
<!-- Utiruso --> REMOVED <!-- Seclusive --> <!-- Trecherous -->
<!-- Volanna --> <!-- Trader --> <!-- Explorer -->
<!-- Jivorn --> REMOVED <!-- Seclusive --> <!-- Trecherous -->
<!-- Alexis --> <!-- BRUTAL --> <!-- Power-Mad --> <!-- Trecherous -->
<!-- Flauros --> <!-- Power-Mad -->
<!-- Mahon --> REMOVED <!-- BRUTAL --> <!-- Power-Mad -->
<!-- Elijah --> <!-- Power-Mad -->
<!-- Tebryn --> <!-- BRUTAL --> <!-- Trecherous -->
<!-- Os-Gabella --> <!-- BRUTAL --> <!-- Trecherous -->
<!-- Malchavic --> REMOVED <!-- BRUTAL --> <!-- Trecherous -->
<!-- Hyborem --> <!-- BRUTAL --> <!-- Hates Different Religion --> <!-- Militaristic -->
<!-- Auric --> <!-- AGGRESSIVE -->
<!-- Railtor --> <!-- AGGRESSIVE -->
<!-- Cualli --> <!-- AGGRESSIVE -->
<!-- Mihuatl --> <!-- AGGRESSIVE --> <!-- Likes slavery --> <!-- Dislikes liberty -->
<!-- CUAI-IXL --> <!-- AGGRESSIVE -->
<!-- Archos --> <!-- BRUTAL -->
<!-- Corane --> <!-- BRUTAL -->
<!-- Kahd --> <!-- AGGRESSIVE --> <!-- Arcane -->
<!-- Natane --> ????
<!-- Mazatl --> <!-- Seclusive --> <!-- Hates opposing alignment --> <!-- Doesn't trade maps -->
<!-- Chislev/Absaroke --> <!-- Peaceful -->
<!-- Dannmos --> <!-- Science, not military --> <!-- Open towards trade --> <!-- Like wonders -->
<!-- Deirdra --> <!-- Peaceful -->
<!-- Risen Emperor --> <!-- Honourable --> <!-- Like wonders --> <!-- Like being traded resources -->
<!-- Alexi --> ????
<!-- Jo1 --> ????
<!-- Jo2 --> <!-- BRUTAL -->
<!-- Jo3 --> ????
<!-- Hephaestus --> ????
<!-- Dtesh --> <!-- BRUTAL -->
<!-- Thanatos --> <!-- BRUTAL -->
<!-- Vanedis --> <!-- BRUTAL -->
<!-- Verocchio --> <!-- BRUTAL -->
<!-- Maer --> <!-- BRUTAL -->
<!-- Taranis --> <!-- BRUTAL -->
 
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[16:11] Snarko Bah, Cassiel is right, it's time humans stand up to the gods and learn to take responsibility of their own lives.
 
Here are my impressions of the first 4 leaders in the civilopedia, more to come once I've got more time:

Absaroke: According to the lore he leads the Chislev in their initial struggle against the Clan, he then makes them (the Chislev) settle down and gather their strength before he returns for his people's bloody revenge. Plus he's got the Raiders trait.
I think he should be a rather peaceful leader who doesn't declare war on civs he doesn't have *really* bad relations with. And even then he'll only do so after making sure he has some kind of significant advantage. Once he declares war though he won't stop until his enemies are utterly crushed or it becomes clear that he is loosing.

Alexis: In the scenario's (when Decius threatens him with a poisoned blade) Flauros says about Alexis that she would likely have lived a life in eternal pain rather then give in to Decius' threats, additionally in Flauros' pedia entry she refuses the truce with the Kuriotates. Combine that with her aggressive trait and you get a relentless warmonger who declares war easily and will refuse to make peace unless you have a stack of doom standing at her palace gates. Her target would usually be the weakest bordering civ without much consideration for the relations between their two people.

Amelanchier: In the lore he kills the order priest who burns his home to purge the Veil followers hiding there and he goes so far as to claim that he doesn't care about the coming apocalypse if his homelands are save. His traits are Raiders and Defender.
He seems like the kind of leader who wouldn't go to war actively unless his precious forest are threatened directly. If somebody else declares war on him however he won't easily accept a truce and he won't hesitate to counter-invade the aggressor, if only because it keeps the enemy's soldiers away from the places important to him.

Angaad: Her pedia entry shows clearly her love for war and her dislike of formalities, she is a warmongering leader who defines his enemies based on their religion, she will quickly declare war on ayubody following the Ashen Veil or the Overlords and she won't make peace unless the other party converts to one of the less evil/chaotic religions.

Edit: Wow, can't believe I didn't get ninja'd.
 
Angaad isn't that fanatical. She's a warmonger, yes and hates evil people because she's good & bannor, but she wouldn't necessarily go after people on religious matters. She keeps to her word though, not breaking a friendship unless the 'friend' happens to join the evil side.

All in all, she's really into warmongering, be it barbs or evil :):):):):):):)s. Building good defenses is also one of her priorities and while she's not really a woman of science, her consort Brennen is, so I'd say she's inclined towards science as well. Note that she perhaps isn't the best leader from a commoner's POV. She puts nearly all her efforts into defense and offense but sometimes forget her people, disregarding their happiness and health issues.
 
I guess I'll post my favorite leader..

Tebryn Arbandi; In lore, pedia, and in some misc pedias you'll see Tebryn is a cruel and deceitfull type of person. He also attacks many civilizations to bring the end. But also will trick someone for his personal gain..so in gameplay Tebryn should build many cities(for planar gates), declare war on any weak or good civilization(order more often), use the ritual of elegy more often, pile on existing wars, create wars by selling tech for war,force AV religion on others, and summon demons. All of this will rack up the AC pretty fast.

I know my way good in XML's and decently on python.
But I don't know how to create new things such as promotions etc. Will need help on that.
 
Hmmm
Naxus: I dont see Naxus as an aggressive leader. Crushing a weaker Civ most likely, but overall more concerned with keeping himself in power and necromancy :) I wish necromancers could summon more skeletons...
 
-Balseraph-

Perpentach is altogether too sane and orderly to match his mythos. I haven't received one unusual demand or offer from him at all. I could see him asking for one of my cities in exchange for fish, for example... tho that trade may not be possible in the rules, but you can see where I'm going.

Leela's actions, on the other hand, were entirely believable for a spoiled and bratty princess. Protip: Never conquer cities of your foes near the Balseraph border when you've got open borders with them. Loki is waiting...

-Austrin-

Dierdre I see as the curious kitty sort. She's not likely to start wars, but she may build a city right in the middle of your borders if you leave an empty spot. The Austrin's real power is their ability to build a wide-ranging trade network with well-positioned cities before anyone else; she'll research a)hunting techs and then b) trade techs such as sailing before anything else, though if she manages to snag enough mystic tech with her scouts then she'll go for channeling II units to get her hippogriffs. and she will get them to every warrior unit she can. She'll go for either fellowship of leaves or Kilmorph if she's landlocked, OO if she's got a high percentage of coastal cities and her visible map has alot of water; the other religions probably won't do much for her, since they don't enhance her mobility. And I'll bet she doesn't give up her maps easily, nor would she value the maps of others as much as going out and seeing things for herself. For city building, she won't bunch up; she'll build near pivotal points, such as connecting rivers or mountain passes, and she'll go where the resources are. Her units will be spread out; less of them in the city, more of them 'within earshot'.

Trackers are a very powerful unit as early in the game as they get in; she'll build plenty of them.

Sarah and Ecks would probably avoid everyone else as much as they could until they get the Joining built, at which point they'll act based on the new civ's requirements.
 
A few notes I wrote down after a discussion on IRC.

Sabathiel

Militaristic. Warring.
Doesn't make peace easily, doesn't like losing, doesn't like being vassal.
Good relations needed for trade.
Demand religion and war, but not techs, gold etc.
Likes those with same alignment. (angels can fall too, allowing for that.)
 
Posted a list in the first post. Not everything is included, it's a simple list. I'll be looking back here for details.

Some things posted about leaders we have little control over in the leaderheadinfos xml file. For example we can make a leader a bit less likely to seek peace themselves but can do nothing about them accepting peace offers from others.

P.s. I'll be leaving soon for a week or two so if you don't see me updating the list or posting it's not that I've lost interest.
 
So I see you have ???s for Ophelia. Since she's my favorite Bannor leader, I'll put in some of my opinion. I always pictured her as being cold and emotionless, but not evil, brutal, or cruel. A soldier first and foremost. I always play her defensively, but then again I play everybody defensively.
 
Hianthrogh (leader of the Maztl) mechanically speaking should -never trade maps- he has no reason to know your territory, and will not reveal his. He will also not open borders with you unless you are both -good- and friendly. His relations with you will drop as you raise the armageddon counter and will declare war if you raise it by more than 10% yourself. He will only make peace if you succeed in lowering the armegeddon counter during the war. He won't capitulate for any reason, though he might voluntarily become your vassal (only good nations need apply).

He will otherwise not declare war, and will seek alternate routes of expansion if you press his borders, Although his relations still drop from having 'close borders' and more so than usual. if you follow ashen veil, or are of evil alignment, it will be that much harder (probably impossible) to trade goods/techs with him. Err edit here.. he'll still declare war against the cualli, pretty much for any reason.
 
Mihuatl (leader of the Cualli) also gives a relations bonus for following slavery, and a penalty for following liberty, in addition to the bonus for her favourite civic (sacrifice the weak). Mihuatl will very readily become a vassal if you have stronger military might than her (in fact she'll often go out of her way to arrange it, so that she can follow behind your wars and steal your victories), and will capitulate fairly easily as well. She'll break the vassal arrangement at your weakest.. so she'll often wait for you to leave your border cities unguarded and then declare war. She won't dogpile wars, instead she'll side with the winner, or try to vassalise the loser if all the parties are weakened.

She declares war on 'easy targets', not necessarily close to her. Relations with her are irrelevant, other than for negotiating trade. She usually won't trade maps with you unless you are weaker militarily. She won't 'sell' it to you though, as she presumes you'll simply sell it to one of his rivals
 
Mihuatl is a she ;)
And a fervent AV follower, though I'm not sure whether or not the Cualli are agnostics.
 
Cualli are agnostic, but they shouldn't as I herd that Mazatl are no longer agnostic.

The Cualli shall remain agnostic. They didn't worship a pantheon (which the Mazatl did, though they focused on two of the gods), they worship a single god. Agruonn, or Aeron.
 
A question on that.. how can the caulli, as a civ, be agnostic when one of their leaders' favourite civics requires ashen veil?
 
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