1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Rebuilding Iraq……and Germany

Discussion in 'World History' started by Rambuchan, Aug 3, 2005.

  1. Rambuchan

    Rambuchan The Funky President

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,560
    Location:
    London, England
    As is becoming clear, I’m really big on learning from history. This is one of two threads designed to continue this fruitful process. I am going to throw up some quotes relating to the US post-war efforts to rebuild Germany and Japan, with the obvious intention of finding some insights on how to go about dealing with the rebuilding of Iraq.

    REBUILDING AND OCCUPYING POSTWAR GERMANY


    -----------
    QUOTE No.1
    -----------

    “Nobody talked to me about what our policies were in Germany”, Clay later recalled. “They just sent me over there. I did not want the job. After all, we were still fighting a war, and to be the occupying deputy military governor in a defeated area while the war was still going on (in the Pacific) was about as dead-looking an end for a solider as you could find.”

    ~ General Lucius D. Clay, succeeded Eisenhower as Military Governor of the US-occupied zone.

    -----------
    QUOTE No.2
    -----------

    “Clay could not wait to get rid of this unlooked for responsibility. From the outset he planned that the military government would be short-lived; he aimed to cut his staff from twelve thousand to six thousand by February 1, 1946, and set July 1 as the target date for handing power over to a completely civilian government. Like Eisenhower, he believed that “the Government of Germany should, at the very earliest practicable moment, pass to a civilian organisation.” But until this was possible, he argued, it was the job of the State Department, not the US Army, to run the occupation.

    After a reverse power struggle between the State and War Departments, in which each side sought to pass the buck to the other, Truman fudged the issue by entrusting policy making to the former but leaving the administrative work to the latter.”


    ~ p92-97, Gimbel “Governing the American Zone” & p95, Clay to War Department, Sept. 18, 1945, in Smith (ed.), Clay Papers.


    -----------
    QUOTE No.3
    -----------

    “With 10,000 people I couldn’t do the job of denazification. It’s got to be done by the Germans.”

    ~ p172, in Smith (ed.), Clay Papers.

    -----------
    QUOTE No.4
    -----------

    “The democratisation of Western Germany was, without question, one of the great successes of American postwar policy. But it is important to recognise that it was driven forward in large measure by Clay’s desire to hand over power to a civilian authority as soon as possible.”

    ~ p.74, Ferguson, “Colossus”.

    -----------
    QUOTE No.5
    -----------

    “the newborn West German government of 1949…was conceived and delivered by the American Army….”

    ~ p102, Gimbel “Governing the American Zone”.
     
  2. Adler17

    Adler17 Prussian Feldmarschall

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2003
    Messages:
    5,341
    Location:
    Schleswig- Holstein. Germany
    Yes, (West) Germany and Japan were rebuilt by the US and it was an outstanding success. However both nations had traditions with democracy. Although the Japanese democracy was only lasting over 10 years about until the Manchuria war and it was not as democratical as it could have been. However Germany had long traditions of a parlamentarian system and parties existing, working and resisting in the underground until the Nazis were removed. Both nations had working law states, only interrupted by the dictatorships (of Hitler and the Japanese military).
    In contrast to Iraq there were these traditions, at least to a limited degree. In Iraq´s case it isn´t totally. Also the population was not really resisting. There were no religious conflicts nor there was an enemy of the occupants to fight with. Indeed there was a new enemy arosen by the war: Stalin and the Soviet Union. This enemy to fight was clear that both nations had to fight with the US. Indeed at least in Germany´s case this was during the war even the policy of the working resistance in Germany (Communists excluded of course) at least attempting to fight the bolshevism as well as the Nazism.
    What is in Iraq´s case?
    1. A nation without democratical or law state traditions.
    2. A state in which the occupants resist at least partly very strong.
    3. A state in which religius tensions exist, not only among the population but also belong occupants and occpiers.
    4. An enemy existing to enforce these tensions and to fight the occupants (Al Quaida).

    These problems have to be solved and that´s why Iraq can only partly be set equal with Japan but no way with Germany. The US made the error not to recognize the warnings about the trouble what could happen and indeed is happening. And that´s the tragedy. Don´t get me wrong: Saddam was an evil tyrant but was he worth the prize? The growing of the Al Quaida?

    Adler
     
  3. Knight-Dragon

    Knight-Dragon Unhidden Dragon Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2001
    Messages:
    19,963
    Location:
    Singapore
    There's also the little fact that Iraq is not as homogenous as either Germany or Japan. It was composed of 3 Ottoman provinces, dumped together by the British.
     
  4. Dr Corbett

    Dr Corbett Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2004
    Messages:
    76
    A curious statement. Both Germany and Japan have long and famous histories of internal conflict and strife; and both were unified first only quite recently in world history. Pre-Meiji era Japan, Holy Roman Empire, etc. was quite divided.

    Of course it's true that all the electorates and principalities of the HRE were, for the most part, German, and that all the feudal states of Japan were obviously Japanese... perhaps not so true for Iraq.
     
  5. Knight-Dragon

    Knight-Dragon Unhidden Dragon Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2001
    Messages:
    19,963
    Location:
    Singapore
    Which is what I mean.

    And Iraq is ancient; even today, there're still pockets of minorities here and there. I'm not talking about the main Kurdish and Arab groups. ;)
     

Share This Page