Recession Watch: the party isn't over yet!!

Are we still in recession or are we in recovery?


  • Total voters
    44
  • Poll closed .

civ_king

Deus Caritas Est
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Messages
16,368
New month, new thread.

Previous threads...
Recession Watch: September
Recession Watch: August
Recession Watch: July
Recession Watch: June
Recession Watch: May
Recession Watch: April
Recession Watch: March
Recession Watch: February
Recession Watch: January

Spoiler September :
Spoiler ISM Manufacturing Survey :
September 2009 Manufacturing ISM Report On Business®
PMI at 52.6%

DO NOT CONFUSE THIS NATIONAL REPORT with the various regional purchasing reports released across the country. The national report's information reflects the entire United States, while the regional reports contain primarily regional data from their local vicinities. Also, the information in the regional reports is not used in calculating the results of the national report. The information compiled in this report is for the month of September 2009.

New Orders and Production Growing
Employment and Inventories Contracting
Supplier Deliveries Slower

(Tempe, Arizona) — Economic activity in the manufacturing sector expanded in September for the second consecutive month, and the overall economy grew for the fifth consecutive month, say the nation's supply executives in the latest Manufacturing ISM Report On Business®.

The report was issued today by Norbert J. Ore, CPSM, C.P.M., chair of the Institute for Supply Management™ Manufacturing Business Survey Committee. "The manufacturing sector grew for the second consecutive month in September. While the rate of growth moderated slightly when compared to August, the recovery broadened as the number of industries reporting growth increased from 11 to 13. Both new orders and production are growing, but at a slower rate when compared to August. It appears the fundamentals for continuing recovery are still at work as inventories and sales are gaining balance. This month, we asked a special question with regard to the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. Twelve of the 18 manufacturing industries expect to derive some benefit from the program, and 12 manufacturing industries responded that they expect their companies to see some benefit."


PERFORMANCE BY INDUSTRY

In September, 13 of the 18 manufacturing industries reported growth. The industries — listed in order — are: Wood Products; Paper Products; Apparel, Leather & Allied Products; Transportation Equipment; Textile Mills; Printing & Related Support Activities; Petroleum & Coal Products; Electrical Equipment, Appliances & Components; Fabricated Metal Products; Chemical Products; Computer & Electronic Products; Miscellaneous Manufacturing; and Food, Beverage & Tobacco Products. The four industries reporting contraction in September are: Primary Metals; Furniture & Related Products; Plastics & Rubber Products; and Machinery.


WHAT RESPONDENTS ARE SAYING ...

* "Purchasing remains a challenge as suppliers now seem to be trying to raise pricing at any sign of life in the economy." (Computer & Electronic Products)
* "Business is picking up — lots of opportunities." (Primary Metals)
* "Agricultural commodities continue to weaken, with the exception of the domestic and world sugar markets." (Food, Beverage & Tobacco Products)
* "Automotive demand continues to be strong even after 'cash for clunkers.'" (Fabricated Metal Products)
* "Business remains slow, with no sign of improvement again this month." (Nonmetallic Mineral Products)
Spoiler U3 :
THE EMPLOYMENT SITUATION -- SEPTEMBER 2009


Nonfarm payroll employment continued to decline in September (-263,000), and
the unemployment rate (9.8 percent) continued to trend up, the U.S. Bureau of
Labor Statistics reported today. The largest job losses were in construction,
manufacturing, retail trade, and government.
Spoiler U6 :
September for last three years (in %):

2007 - 8.4
2008 - 11.2
2009 - 17.0

Last 12 month (in %):

2008

Oct - 12.0
Nov - 12.6
Dec - 13.5

2009

Jan - 13.9
Feb - 14.8
Mar - 15.6
Apr - 15.8
May - 16.4
Jun - 16.5
Jul - 16.3
Aug - 16.8
Sep - 17.0

Source

Spoiler U6, Oct 2 :
Today’s jobs report was weak across the board: September payrolls fell by 263,000, the unemployment rate rose to 9.8%, the underemployment rate (U-6) rose to 17.0%, and average weekly hours fell to 30.0, tying the record low set in June.

The Bureau of Labor Statistics also reported that payrolls declined by 13,000 more in July and August than it had previously estimated.

And if that weren’t enough, BLS also estimates the number of jobs back in March was actually 824,000 lower than previously reported (this is an estimate of the “benchmark revision” that BLS will make to the data early next year).

Putting these figures together, we find that the number of jobs has now declined by 1.1 million (263,000 + 13,000 + 824,000) more than we previously knew.

I have always found it frustrating that the BLS reports an estimate of the benchmark revision each October, but doesn’t incorporate that revision until the following February. That means that many analysts will be using incorrect data over the next few months.

If you want to know the number of jobs lost during the recession, for example, you might think you could get that number by clicking over to the BLS and comparing the number of jobs in September 2009 to the number of jobs in December 2007. That comparison would show total job losses of 7.2 million. Based on today’s estimate of the benchmark revision, however, it’s likely that the actual figure is more than 8.0 million.

Spoiler Illinois following California :
10/6/09 - COMPTROLLER'S QUARTERLY REPORT
STATE FINANCES GRIM, AND GETTING WORSE
"Illinois has too many bills, not enough money to pay them as revenue dips"


Assessing the state of Illinois' fiscal situation in his quarterly report, Comptroller Dan Hynes called the situation grim, and getting worse.

"What is clear is that as bad as our budget situation has been recently, it is only getting worse," Hynes said. "We cannot pay our bills, and there is less money coming in than anticipated. The state of Illinois continues to be in a major fiscal crisis, and the situation continues to deteriorate."

Hynes said Illinois had nearly $3 billion in unpaid bills at the end of September, a record development for the first quarter of any previous fiscal year. This, despite the state having borrowed $2.25 billion in short-term loans – $1 billion in May and another $1.25 billion in August – which must be repaid before the end of FY2010, on June 30, 2010.

Suppliers of goods and services to the state, including health care providers and other critical social services, are waiting 61 business days to be reimbursed – or about three months – another record for so early in the fiscal year. At this time last year, payment delays averaged two months, or 42 business days.

"This is a crisis unmatched historically, and the downward spiral is accelerating," Hynes said. "By any quantifiable measure: the bills outstanding; the payment delays; and overall borrowing, the fiscal situation has never been worse, especially so early in the fiscal year, and there's no end in sight."

Hynes said the backlog is much more than an accounting problem.

"Real people are bearing the brunt of the state's failure to meet its basic obligations," Hynes said. "Calls to the Comptroller's payment inquiry center have jumped from more than 1,900 per week to 2,600 per week and the anger of callers has turned to real fear."

Here are some examples:

* A Chicago Meals on Wheels and nutrition center can't purchase food and is facing eviction.
* A large Lake County disabled program can't make insurance or mortgage payments.
* A Westside family services center has exhausted its lines of credit.
* A Northside women's advocacy center director is using her own money to keep operating.
* A downstate independent living center is laying off staff and cancelling programs.
* A home health care association serving the elderly can't make payroll for its already minimum wage employees who in turn can't pay their rent or mortgage payments.

Hynes identified two factors that have had a major impact on the deteriorating fiscal position: the steep decline in economy-driven revenues such as personal and corporate income taxes and sales taxes, and record lapse-period spending. Corporate income tax receipts were down 27.8 percent, sales tax receipts decreased 13.2 percent, and individual income tax receipts fell 11.7 percent in the first quarter. Meanwhile the state paid a record $3.8 billion in obligations carried over from FY2009.

"On the one hand, revenues are way down, as is typical in a recession," Hynes said. "That situation is exacerbated, however, by the fact that we are still paying last year's bills. This is a reckoning brought on by years and years of irresponsible budget practices and nothing has changed."

Hynes predicted fiscal pressures would continue well into FY2011 and warned of record and prolonged payment delays for most categories of state programs and operations, including health care and social services; grants to primary and secondary schools; payments to universities and community colleges; and, payments to local governments and public transit systems.

Valid for page one
 
Because it creates many topics for the same purpose, where the previous topic was perfectly fine and healthy.

The old topic didn't even have 100 posts, let alone the 1000 a topic is usually shut down at.
 
how about I remove October from the title, will that work?
 
Personally, I think we're not getting worse or better. I think we're stable. That's not bad, but it's not good either.
 
FYI, the original 'justification' for the monthly series (at least for me) was that most economic data comes out monthly. It made sense at the time...though as data moderate, it's more reasonable to just have one long-running thread.

Results from the ISM September Manufacturing Survey:
September 2009 Manufacturing ISM Report On Business®
PMI at 52.6%

DO NOT CONFUSE THIS NATIONAL REPORT with the various regional purchasing reports released across the country. The national report's information reflects the entire United States, while the regional reports contain primarily regional data from their local vicinities. Also, the information in the regional reports is not used in calculating the results of the national report. The information compiled in this report is for the month of September 2009.

New Orders and Production Growing
Employment and Inventories Contracting
Supplier Deliveries Slower

(Tempe, Arizona) — Economic activity in the manufacturing sector expanded in September for the second consecutive month, and the overall economy grew for the fifth consecutive month, say the nation's supply executives in the latest Manufacturing ISM Report On Business®.

The report was issued today by Norbert J. Ore, CPSM, C.P.M., chair of the Institute for Supply Management™ Manufacturing Business Survey Committee. "The manufacturing sector grew for the second consecutive month in September. While the rate of growth moderated slightly when compared to August, the recovery broadened as the number of industries reporting growth increased from 11 to 13. Both new orders and production are growing, but at a slower rate when compared to August. It appears the fundamentals for continuing recovery are still at work as inventories and sales are gaining balance. This month, we asked a special question with regard to the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. Twelve of the 18 manufacturing industries expect to derive some benefit from the program, and 12 manufacturing industries responded that they expect their companies to see some benefit."


PERFORMANCE BY INDUSTRY

In September, 13 of the 18 manufacturing industries reported growth. The industries — listed in order — are: Wood Products; Paper Products; Apparel, Leather & Allied Products; Transportation Equipment; Textile Mills; Printing & Related Support Activities; Petroleum & Coal Products; Electrical Equipment, Appliances & Components; Fabricated Metal Products; Chemical Products; Computer & Electronic Products; Miscellaneous Manufacturing; and Food, Beverage & Tobacco Products. The four industries reporting contraction in September are: Primary Metals; Furniture & Related Products; Plastics & Rubber Products; and Machinery.


WHAT RESPONDENTS ARE SAYING ...

* "Purchasing remains a challenge as suppliers now seem to be trying to raise pricing at any sign of life in the economy." (Computer & Electronic Products)
* "Business is picking up — lots of opportunities." (Primary Metals)
* "Agricultural commodities continue to weaken, with the exception of the domestic and world sugar markets." (Food, Beverage & Tobacco Products)
* "Automotive demand continues to be strong even after 'cash for clunkers.'" (Fabricated Metal Products)
* "Business remains slow, with no sign of improvement again this month." (Nonmetallic Mineral Products)



Employment report tomorrow...
 
Who wants the over/under on 9.9%?

I'll be an optimist and take the under on 9.9%. That implies that I'll also take the under on a 300,000 decline in payroll employment.

edit-
Make that sub-200k. 300k is too easy.
 
Jobless recovery, yeah were still in a recession.
 
One for two -

THE EMPLOYMENT SITUATION -- SEPTEMBER 2009


Nonfarm payroll employment continued to decline in September (-263,000), and
the unemployment rate (9.8 percent) continued to trend up, the U.S. Bureau of
Labor Statistics reported today. The largest job losses were in construction,
manufacturing, retail trade, and government.
 
U-3 which is an official unemployment rate is not very good to decide about jobs' situation in USA, because it leaves out so-called "discouraged workers" and part-timers for economy reasons, so it is better to use U-6 to see what's going on. U-6 is defined by US Department of Labour as

US Department of Labour said:
U-6 Total unemployed, plus all marginally attached workers, plus total employed part time for economic reasons, as a percent of the civilian labor force plus all marginally attached workers (marginally attached workers are persons who currently are neither working nor looking for work but indicate that they want and are available for a job and have looked for work sometime in the recent past)

So let's first look at the stats.

September for last three years (in %):

2007 - 8.4
2008 - 11.2
2009 - 17.0

Last 12 month (in %):

2008

Oct - 12.0
Nov - 12.6
Dec - 13.5

2009

Jan - 13.9
Feb - 14.8
Mar - 15.6
Apr - 15.8
May - 16.4
Jun - 16.5
Jul - 16.3
Aug - 16.8
Sep - 17.0

Source

So what do we see? We see that for some reasons in last two years U-6 rose from 8.4 to 17 per cent which means that suddenly lots of people started to lose their jobs and had to go part time or entire jobless. What's more - it started to rise rapidly this year which may mean that US economy entered something very undesireable.
 
Job losses increased in September.
That they did - the forecast was about 170,000 in job losses.

A few more data points from the BLS report-

The number of long-term unemployed (those unemployed for 27 ore more weeks) rose by 450,000.

The number of discouraged workers -those unemployed who have stopped looking for a job - has tripled over the past 12 months.

Revisions show that job losses over the past 3 months were a bit higher than originally reported.
 
That they did - the forecast was about 170,000 in job losses.

A few more data points from the BLS report-

The number of long-term unemployed (those unemployed for 27 ore more weeks) rose by 450,000.

The number of discouraged workers -those unemployed who have stopped looking for a job - has tripled over the past 12 months.

Revisions show that job losses over the past 3 months were a bit higher than originally reported.

The rate with which they increased, increased.
 
One last bit: not-so-pretty graph -

stimulus-vs-unemployment-september-dots.gif

(if the picture's broken, the source is here.)
 
So either the recovery plan made the economy worse or Washington has no idea what it is doing. Not very encouraging either way.

If I am reading the graph correctly here less than 1/3 of the stimulus money has been payed out. This has always seemed to be an inherit weakness of stimulus programs. To get the money out quickly there is no way to use it efficiently and you might as well be burning dollars for heating and to wait defeats the purpose of having a stimulus in the first place. But no matter what is done the president will say, after the fact, that life would have been so much without the stimulus to merit the cost.
 
Job losses increased in September.

Companies can hardly be increasing their activity while both unemployment and disposable income are falling (the latter both due to unemployment and to the inevitable reduction in lending). Which means that employment will continue to fall.

Nothing done so far, anywhere in the world, has broken that vicious cycle. Looks like U6 in the US will indeed be 20% or more by the year's end. And once the January revisions to employment number come out, expect something between 500000-1000000 more job losses to be finally admitted.
By January the political situation will be becoming unsustainable. I guess Iran does risk getting bombed - as a distraction...
 
Back
Top Bottom