Recon+Navy

[Gooblah]

Haven't seen many threads about this, so here goes. I believe putting a Recon unit with a Caravel or other naval unit is the best way to get efficient scouting done. I have 2 main reasons:

1) In the early game, with a coastal city, Hunting, and Sailing, you can build a Galley and stick a scout and a settler in it. If you find a new landmass, or another area of yours, you can unload the scout and explore on land and sea. Similarly, if the scout finds a good city site, you can grab it with the settler ASAP!

2) In the mid-game, Caravels armed with Explorers are a viable option. Find another civ, then get an Open Borders and have the Explorer comb the land while the Caravel scouts the seas. If you have two of these, world maps are completely unneeded and circumnavigation becomes a bit easier.

 

[carl corey]

The first one is a problem early on since it will cost you hammers that you are not sure are going to be put to good use, especially the settler. A Galley to explore the seas to see if you meet other neighbours is ok. A Scout on it to explore their land (if you get Open Borders) or neutral land can be done. But a full Settler? Also, are you going to build a city far away from the capital just because you can? Early in the game the cost will almost certainly outweigh the benefits.

As for the second, it's probably best on higher levels. On Monarch I can afford to sell a tech for tech or money and add their map in the deal. Most of the time you don't need everyone's map, just one per continent, as that AI is likely to have scouted it, spied it or gone to war through those lands. An explorer can prove useful on neutral terrain (some big islands, an unsettled continent), but otherwise I find it easier to just get the map in some way.

 

[Bhruic]

How often do you have a "spare" settler in the early game? If I'm building a settler it's because I already have a spot for one. It'd be a waste of time/hammers to build one on speculation.

Bh

 

[InvisibleStalke]

I usually explore in the early game with workboats - they are much cheaper. I will only build the galley and settler if there is an island I want to claim.

Late game taking an explorer on your caravel is a good idea. You might discover a large island and even goody huts. When you get to the other AI's you can usually trade for maps, but sometimes they are a bit selfish with the map. Its also good to wander around and just take a look at their standing armies and if there are wars going on its nice to be a bystander.

 

[Winston Hughes]

...and even goody huts.

Indeed. I've popped Astronomy this way several times. That explorer can end up saving you thousands in research costs.

Its also good to wander around and just take a look at their standing armies and if there are wars going on its nice to be a bystander.

Yeah, I do that too. And nowadays I'll often keep a spy or two nearby (in neutral territory to avoid detection), so I can help to bring the war to a satisfactory conclusion... hehe

 

[r_rolo1]

Late game taking an explorer on your caravel is a good idea. You might discover a large island and even goody huts. When you get to the other AI's you can usually trade for maps, but sometimes they are a bit selfish with the map. Its also good to wander around and just take a look at their standing armies and if there are wars going on its nice to be a bystander.

Is better to use a spy for that. No risk of barb attack.... and if you find a more jerkisk civ ( read Toku ) you can start the mapping ASAP ( atleast until the spy is caught... )

 

[Gooblah]

The "spare" settler problem is nullified by the fact that you invest in a normal Settler on the hope it pays off. This happens only when you have 4 or 5 cities and can afford one far way. I should've clarified though...
If the settler pays off, it acts like a pad for future investments of cities and units in the area.

 

[Winston Hughes]

Is better to use a spy for that. No risk of barb attack.... and if you find a more jerkisk civ ( read Toku ) you can start the mapping ASAP ( atleast until the spy is caught... )

I disagree for several reasons:

1) Spies are sloooow.

2) To my knowledge, spies don't get the hut popping bonus.

3) Spies can be busted even in friendly territory.

4) Spies are slooooooooooow. (Sorry to repeat, but this one is the deal breaker for me)

As you say, they can map AI territory without OB, but I rarely find that I need to do that straight away. And more often than not I can find some chump who's already mapped them and is prepared to sell that information to me for a song.

 

[InvisibleStalke]

Spies also get caught if you move them around a lot. And unless you drop in a great spy you probably are going to be investing fewer espionage points in them than they are in you - since they probably know fewer civs than you do and you probably will get more benefit putting your espionage into your local enemies.

On an isolated start I like to send a great spy with my first caravel and then a stream of spies on subsequent caravels though

 

[UncleJJ]

I disagree for several reasons:

1) Spies are sloooow.

I found that they speed up a lot in the late game if you use Airports to move them to friendly cities near the enemy. I used my vassal Ghandi's cities and just sent the spies back from my capital after they were used. This was an intercontinental war too taking 4 turns to move by transport across the ocean. That speeded up the spy missions a lot, although I still had entire transports in my invasion fleet loaded with 4 spies. There were something like 30 troops and 6 spies that landed when I invaded Mao.

Spies were a great help in various ways against Ceasar, who was Mao's master, blowing stuff up and just seeing where things were. Having over 30 cities with all the EP buildings and a running a few spy specialists meant I was getting close to 2000 EPs a turn (with 0% on slider) and spending them was no problem. A late game spy surge is possible and helps lubricate a Domination rush.

 

[Winston Hughes]

I found that they speed up a lot in the late game if you use Airports to move them to friendly cities near the enemy.

That's a great plan, but I was replying to r_rolo who was replying to this:

Late game taking an explorer on your caravel is a good idea. You might discover a large island and even goody huts. When you get to the other AI's you can usually trade for maps, but sometimes they are a bit selfish with the map. Its also good to wander around and just take a look at their standing armies and if there are wars going on its nice to be a bystander.

To clarify my point:

Spies are ideal for exploring enemy (or non-OB) territory, and obviously if you want to run espionage missions you'll need them.

But, compared to explorers, they're no good for exploring unclaimed areas (and hunting down those last few huts), or OB-civ territory - they cover the ground so slowly it's painful. Plus their tendency to get caught makes them both more expensive and less reliable for keeping an eye on your friends.

Having lost spies within ten turns of landfall on more than one occasion, and having missed out on huts (which might have given me Astronomy) on others, I've concluded that exploration is usually best conducted by explorers. Spies will follow later, and will be kept out of AI territory unless I have some particular purpose for them (which might include mapping places explorers cannot reach).

ps. I assume when InvisibleStalke says 'late game' he means what I'd call 'mid-game', since I can't imagine using caravels, meeting new civs, or finding untouched islands in the modern age.

 

[InvisibleStalke]

ps. I assume when InvisibleStalke says 'late game' he means what I'd call 'mid-game', since I can't imagine using caravels, meeting new civs, or finding untouched islands in the modern age.

Absolutely true.