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Recount?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by CavLancer, Nov 24, 2016.

  1. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    And to keep in synch, the president-elect's response was:

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/802671162383802368

    Says the man who claimed not to recognize the elections unless he won.

    I'm left wondering how a recount will fill up coffers. I'm sure Mr Trump would know a way.
     
  2. Commodore

    Commodore Deity

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    Funny how you point out Trump's hypocrisy on this matter, but won't point out Clinton's. She said Trump not accepting the results would be a, and I quote, "direct threat to our democracy". So why is Trump challenging the election a direct threat to our democracy, but her refusal to accept the results isn't? Oh that's right, because democracy is only good when your side wins. And I say "her refusal" because while she initially wanted nothing to do with this recount, she has now come out in support of it.

    So, as per Clinton's own stance on the matter, I must ask anyone who supports this recount: Why do you hate democracy?

    Have you not seen how much money the Green Party has raised for this? My guess is they are going to intentionally miss the deadline for recounts and not issue refunds to everyone who pledged money through crowdfunding efforts and hold on to the over $4 million they have raised.
     
    civman110 likes this.
  3. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    That's quite irrelevant. If Trump hadn't won, he'd be yelling 'Fraud!' and 'Recount!'. Besides, anybody can ask for a recount if indicators point to something irregular might have happened.

    So your guess is the Green Party will behave like Mr Trump. That's good to know. It's also as irrelevant to the recount itself as Mr Trump's tweet.

    As to 'why I hate demcracy?' I can't answer a question of such hypotheticality.
     
  4. Commodore

    Commodore Deity

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    Because you are a conspiracy theorist who refuses to accept reality. I mean, come on you literally accused me of spying on CFC for the government when I said I used to be an intelligence collector. That is some serious paranoia, man.

    Anyway, you are so eager to believe this conspiracy theory tripe that you don't see all the holes in it. One of the states in which this alleged hacking took place was Michigan. Tell me this: How can "computer scientists" say voting machines in Michigan were hacked WHEN MICHIGAN DOESN'T USE VOTING MACHINES. All voting in Michigan is paper ballots only. Also 538, a site that certainly does not support Donald Trump, wrote a very comprehensive article on how it was demographics, not some nefarious plot by those evil Trump-supporting Russians, that accounts for the so-called 7% discrepancy in Wisconsin.

    Face it: Trump won fair and square. There wasn't any election tampering or voter fraud. But you'll just ignore everything I posted here as well as any other evidence that does not fit with the narrative you have already concocted in your head about how Hillary was robbed of a legitimate election win due to the nefarious dealings of that devil Trump and his shady Russian hacker thugs.
     
  5. Commodore

    Commodore Deity

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    Yes. And it's not a guess. There is a fixed cost to a recount, which the Green Party has already met, yet they keep raising their funding goal well past the projected recount cost. Why would they do that if all they wanted was a recount? I'll tell you why: They are using anti-Trump paranoia and fear to raise money for their failing party. And I say this as someone who voted for Stein. Although I'm starting to regret that vote in the wake of the sheer disrespect she is showing for our democracy right now.

    It's not irrelevant at all. I want to know why Trump calling for a recount is a threat to democracy but Clinton Stein calling for one isn't? It all seems quite simple to me. If Trump asking for a recount is undemocratic, then anyone asking for a recount is also undemocratic. At least Obama has the good sense not to go along with this ridiculousness.
     
  6. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    It's easy in Canada. We have a standard system that's used in every province and territory. Every ballot that gets given out has the number of the voting station and the initials of the Deputy Returning Officer who is responsible for those ballots. It's pretty easy to track down which Elections Canada poll worker team to go after if there are irregularities in the counting.

    I'm always flabbergasted as to why your country doesn't have a standard system. Plain old paper and pencil has worked for us for a very long time. Granted, some people think it's hopelessly old-fashioned and want to move to online voting. I'll grant that that would be far more convenient for someone like me, as I had a hell of a time fighting with the moronic Returning Officer in my riding to get the Special Ballot I was entitled to... but online is far too vulnerable to hackers, power outages, people wanting to vote but not having access to a computer, or the website going down. The only technology needed to make the paper and pencil method work is a pencil sharpener.

    Why not?

    Ever since the robocall thing happened here, many people have been leery of being honest with political pollsters. I had no intention whatsoever of telling a pollster my true voting intentions, and other people decided that they would tell the pollster they were voting Conservative just to make sure they weren't targeted for a robocall.
     
  7. Commodore

    Commodore Deity

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    And then you have mischievous people like myself who will intentionally lie to pollsters specifically for the purpose of skewing their numbers and making them look like fools when their polls turn out to be wrong.
     
  8. CavLancer

    CavLancer This aint fertilizer

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    Communist counting, one million in my Swiss bank account, two million...
     
  9. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    I'm sorry, but this is incorrect. As far as I understand it, recounts require costs per recount, and various districts are involved.

    Neither is 'a threat too democracy'. Bush won the presidency one time because of a recount. A recount is just part of the democratic process. Claiming the opposite is, frankly, absurd.
     
  10. Thedrin

    Thedrin Deity

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    The estimated filing fee for all 3 states was known to be ~$2.2M but the total cost of the recount ($6M - $7M) has to be covered by the candidate who requests the recount. These estimated costs were detailed on the funding web page even when the funding goal was $2.5M. I don't know why the initial funding goal wasn't $7M, but any of the following seem like reasonable explanations.
    a) approximate cost of requesting recounts in all 3 states ($2.2M)
    b) approximate cost of a recount in Wisconsin only
    c) just splitting the full amount into more manageable seeming steps.
     
  11. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Maybe 2,5 million is the most allowed?

    Or the campaign didn't believe they would get 7 million anyway, and in this case likely the result would be to cancel all of the funding.
     
  12. tetley

    tetley Head tea leaf

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    What I am leery of--but totally expect to happen--is that too much emphasis will be placed on "recount", when what is really needed is forensics analysis and law enforcement bold enough to press forward even in the face of threats for "asking too many questions." The girl whom Trump child raped didn't have that resolve when she got her death threats if she went through to trial. Even Obama is proving to be a weenie.
     
  13. plarq

    plarq Crazy forever

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    Jill is jilling for bad, rotten stuff in the state called US.

    US stability -1
     
  14. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    And previously they had -100 prestige due to Trump elected. (would have been -50 prestige if Hillary had). :)
     
  15. plarq

    plarq Crazy forever

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    The real thing is that the US is heading to an election crisis if investigation goes on and on, and that is why Gore conceded to Bush Jr. in Florida voting problem. It is better to swallow defeat and try to influence the system as minority party, rather than risk weakening the whole system to gain something from it.
     
  16. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Well, yes. If the election result somehow ends up being popularly seen as false, then how will you be having a new election?

    And chaos will not help. Supposedly the US already is unbelievably polarized, so it is moving into dangerous territory.
     
  17. plarq

    plarq Crazy forever

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    Then stability will be set to -3. Riots and revolts will happen if the election crisis becomes constitutional crisis.

    Now you'd think you'd rather have Bush II ruling for 8 years than risking such a dire future.

    The analogy is this, letting the banker corrupt and illegally embezzle the money in your bank account, or rather everybody lost faith in the banking system and have a bank run where everyone, including the bank, loses?
     
  18. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    And if the north revolts en masse, the potus loses shields there and this is an automatic "over-extension" event! :o

    A stability of -3, coupled with over-extension is a lethal spiral, and you can't reload...
     
  19. civman110

    civman110 Immortal

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    I'd wager we could probably agree on most major issues and at least partially on others. Even I disagreed with your opinions I could respect them because you're not disingenuous or a hypocrite.

    I have two cousins who are very left wing. One behaves like most leftys on here. He gets all worked up and throws a temper tantrum, so I don't discuss anything political with him, but with the other we can actually sit down and have a discussion and often we agree at least partially and I find the disagreement, if there is one, usually lies in our methods for solving the problem, while our objectives will be the same.

    However, once people get to a point where they're so hysterical and hypocritical there's no longer any objective truth for them. They just want to score a point of what they perceive as "their team" and debating them becomes pointless because they're not reasonable people. This is where the majority of the left wing establishment is at today and where most are at on this forum.

    And that's all this recount is. There's no objective to it. They are just hoping to score a point for their team. They're a bunch of clowns.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2016
  20. AdrienIer

    AdrienIer Deity

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    Most people here are "meh, why not recount" and don't expect a lot from it. But either Trump did win and the recount will show it or there was a problem in the original count. In which case I'd be happy for the sake of American democracy that there is a way to check the results.
     

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