Reducing Anarchy Period

[smackster]

This is my 100th post so thought I'd start a new thread.

Now I do have a strategy so I'm not totally wasting your time.

This was discovered by Qitai and posted in one of the GOTM spoiler threads. I've been using it recently and had good success, so I thought I'd post it to see if others can use it and confirm it.

The strategy (exploit?) is designed to reduce the number of anarchy turns when changing governments (when not religious).

To make it work you need to discover the government tech yourself (Monarchy, Republic etc). Now when you discover the tech, stop, take a deep breath, whatever you do don't click ok on the tech screen. You need to click on "whats the big picture" to get into the science screen. Once there, click F1 to get to the domestic advisor, now you can start the anarchy, take a look at the right corner to see how many turns of anarchy you have, write it down.

Now when you exit out of this screen you go back to the main screen and it asks you if you want to change governments. If you don't like the number of anarchy turns given, then go into anarchy again and you will get a different number.

Don't complain to me if it goes up, but 7 out of 8 times I have done this it has gone down. Twice I got 3 turns of anarchy, and I'm sure I've never even see 3 turns before.

Smackster

 

[zagnut]

Originally posted by smackster
To make it work you need to discover the government tech yourself (Monarchy, Republic etc).

Now I know why it didn't work in this month's GOTM when I tried it. I didn't discover Republic. I remembered reading Qitai's comments earlier in the month but couldn't get it to work. I got a 7 turn Anarchy and had to suffer through it.

 

[CIVPhilzilla]

I've done that and got a 1 turn anarchy

 

[civ_steve]

I've tried this twice. 1st time I got 6 turns, and then 6 turns, so no effect. 2nd time (this GOTM) I got 8 turns (Yikes), and then 5 turns . It's not a game-breaker, but it does help.

 

[Offa]

Is this allowed in GOTM or HOF??
I don't think it should be.

 

[Qitai]

Cracker would probably like it because he did not like the luck factor in anarchy. Although, it would disadvantage those who do not know about this. Not sure what is the verdict with the new leadership.

 

[Bluemofia]

hmm, i thought anarchy only lasts 3 turns... maybe this explains my 10 turn anarchy period

 

[ainwood]

Originally posted by Qitai
Cracker would probably like it because he did not like the luck factor in anarchy. Although, it would disadvantage those who do not know about this. Not sure what is the verdict with the new leadership.

We're thinking about it!

Needs some detailed discussion. I would be more partial to it if it could be exploited regardless of whether the player has researched the tech or not. I think that a hard-earned tech trade (especially because the government techs - esp. democracy - are highly valued by the AIs) should be able to take 'advantage' as well.

ANy thoughts people have on whether it should be allowed or not, post them here.

 

[SirPleb]

Originally posted by ainwood
Any thoughts people have on whether it should be allowed or not, post them here.

I used this trick for the first time in the current GOTM and it reduced my revolt time from 8 turns (first "offer") to four turns when I revolted again.

I agree that this trick seems exploitive and is a problem in some regards - it puts players who don't know it at a disadvantage, and it puts players who trade for a government tech at a disadvantage vs. those who research the tech.

Nonetheless, my feeling is that it should be allowed. I don't like the variablitiy of the anarchy period and this helps to reduce it in some circumstances. And I don't think the result is overwhelming - using this trick vs. not using it won't give the player using it a huge advantage, just a small one. Where exploits are not significantly game altering it seems best to me to allow them, just to keep the GOTM rules shorter and thus simpler.

OTOH, if the decision is made to exclude this exploit then I suggest making the exclusion a bit broader, excluding some other things at the same time in a single rule. The rule could be that using any of any of the governor/advisor shortcut keys inter-turn is not allowed. I.e. when the game asks what to do next (e.g. what to research next, what to build next in a given town, etc.) the only allowed action is a response to that question. Cycling through other towns or going to other screens is not allowed. I wish the game were coded that way in the first place. (Even though I currently use the technique of building last space ship part on the same turn the tech is learned. I do that to compete because it is allowed but I'd be just as happy to have it disallowed.)

 

[ainwood]

Originally posted by SirPleb
I do that to compete because it is allowed but I'd be just as happy to have it disallowed.)

I don't think you need too much help to compete, do you?

The general feeling I'm getting is that it should be allowed. I am certainly in favour of keeping things simple.

For GOTM 26, it is defintely in the 'allowed' section - we can't disqualify anyone from using it.

I'll leave the decision for a few days to see if we get any good arguments against allowing it.

 

[Bluemofia]

i think we should use the "cheat" because the computer is giving us the numbers, its not like we are cheating or anything

 

[civ_steve]

I think we should keep it allowed. It's not guaranteed to lessen your anarchy period (in fact it could make it longer!) And it provides a chance to lessen the impact of this random one-time event on the results of any competition: consider two similar players, if one player gets a 2 turn anarchy and a 2nd gets 8 turns, that could well be the difference in the results.

I'd feel even more comfortable if trading for a Government received the same capability, but to some degree that is the individual player's choice. Not everyone chooses to do RCP, or to do a Palace Jump either.

I think it would be easy to post a thread for defining any questionable but allowed tactics, and make sure that links to the thread exist on the GOTM forum so that anyone can review these tactics and use them as they see fit. That way everyone has equal access to using some of these powerful tactics.

 

[Riccett]

IMO, if it wasn't meant to be in the game, don't use it. All you are doing is exploiting a bug.

 

[Ribannah]

This is an obvious (and well-known) exploit, and using it in a competition is not right, whether there is an explicit rule against it or not.

That said, this is one of the many things that should not be random IMHO. An easy and meaningful way for the game to choose the duration of the anarchy would be to make it depend on the number of different luxury resources you control. It is unfair that you can completely lose a number of turns (more than other competitors) only by the roll of the dice.

Would it be possible for the highly skilled GOTM staff to mod the game in this manner?

 

[Skyfish]

Moderator Action: Let sleeping dogs lie, Skyfish! --Padma

 

[NobleLeader]

OTOH, if the decision is made to exclude this exploit then I suggest making the exclusion a bit broader, excluding some other things at the same time in a single rule. The rule could be that using any of any of the governor/advisor shortcut keys inter-turn is not allowed. I.e. when the game asks what to do next (e.g. what to research next, what to build next in a given town, etc.) the only allowed action is a response to that question. Cycling through other towns or going to other screens is not allowed. I wish the game were coded that way in the first place. (Even though I currently use the technique of building last space ship part on the same turn the tech is learned. I do that to compete because it is allowed but I'd be just as happy to have it disallowed.)

Can't see your point...

 

[Darkness]

@Noble leader:
SirPleb is just asking that if this exploit is disallowed, then rules on other exploits should be more explicit also, like disallowing the (minor) exploit when after you've researched a tech, you choose to see the bigger picture, press F1 and change build orders for cities to a structure/unit that has just become available via the tech you've just researched.

He's just asking if that if there are going to be more strict rules about exploits, they'll not just be about this one, that other exploits be included as well...

 

[Ribannah]

Which brings us back to a year ago when the issue of clear and comprehensible rules was also raised.

At the time the powers that were went to great length to ensure that no discussion could take place, and we continued to have some players basically playing a different game than others. Hopefully things will be different now.

 

[col]

I'd like to see the 'Whats the big picture' button removed completely. It introduces all kinds of anomalies.

 

[Skyfish]

This thread should be moved to the GOTM forum since thats what it mainly concerns.