ChocolateShake
Prince
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2016
- Messages
- 525
As I said, I'm advocating the KISS principle, and civilization up to ~civ 5 has always followed it:
(1) Few rules that create a complex interplay (best example is chess)
(2) Starting with few options & during the game adding more and more decisions (starting with a single settler in civ 1 & through technology slowly opening up more possibilities is one the most ingenious ways to implement that I have come across)
I think you've touched on the exact problem, civ used to introduce players slowly to new mechanics, having technology be your way to progress and you would manage your empire in between tech turns. You could easily set goals like "I want to get to the tech that unlocks Darwin's Voyage" (had to look that up since it's been so long). Now it seems there are so many goals to get to, it's easy to get overwhelmed. I enjoy the game still, it just lost some of the charm that comes with simplicity I think.
I've always heard how great Paradox games are, but Crusader Kings 2 stayed in my backlog for a couple of years before I decided to try it, since it seemed like you'd have to spend a week or two just studying the game before you understood what you were doing. When I tried it, things weren't so bad, but sadly the sheer number of things to tweak kind of turned me off. I'll definitely give it another go at some point, but this discussion has made me think, what do new players think of civ now? Are they starting to feel overwhelmed?
I'm not opposed to the idea of having a "spread out" city center. However, I would prefer if that city center would be compact/the districts adjacent to the city center & not somewhere in the mountains.
Yes exactly, making the district placement process simpler would I think make things far more enjoyable. I remember one game where I built a campus or holy site in the mountains far away from my city center, and barbs would frequently pillage it. It got very frustrating since it would take my units a few turns to get there to protect it. It's a risk I had to take, but it kind of felt like I was being forced to play a certain way and make those decisions. With districts not being movable, it seems like you always have to go for the maximum adjacency bonus, it feels like there's no way to get around it.
Well, rules should be elegant. Simple, yet leading to a complex game. That is not always easy to achieve.
I think they did a great job, it's still one of my favorite games (probably my favorite), but it's probably best to stick to 2-3 main systems and base the game off that. If science (maybe renamed to technology), culture and faith are made truly distinct, it would probably make the game simpler and easier to approach. You could have those systems interact with each other in interesting ways when you add the city management aspects of civ to them.
I personally would use culture as a "currency" you need to "convince" people of your civilization:
(1) Implementing governments & policies
(2) spreading borders
(3) having influence on loyalty/culture flipping borders & cities
That would be ideal, culture needs to be as distinct from science as possible. Loyalty should just be a measurement of culture/amenities/military presence, hopefully that's how it works.
I do think civ is still the best 4X, and I'm a great fan of Civ 6, but it is starting to feel like the game might be getting too complicated for its own good. KISS is a great principle to follow