Refining the Rules

About the trades (i.e., incense) - we shouldn't have it period unless we actually trade for it. Unless it's 50% when it trade...
 
Originally posted by Stuck_As_a_Mac
Strider- that is EVERYTHING this thread is about. and shaitan- 3/4, eh?
its now 2/4 because im taking the rubber stamp i keep next to my oboe reeds and stamping....
APROVED

Well it's still 1/4 for some stuff.... I didn't approve some of the items, but most of it is now 2/4. Here is a list of them:

1) 1/4
2) 2/4
3) 2/4
4) 2/4
5) 2/4
6) 1/4
7) 2/4
8) 2/4
9) 1/4
10) 2/4
11) 2/4
12) 2/4
 
strider:
it was around that post: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=532453#post532453
and maybe above up to shaitans big post.

also, the per-member money for the groups proposal is missing?

shaitan proposed to let the businesses use the 20% income cutoff for raw-material/service buying and employee payment.

example1:
shop pays 40% of income to employees
shop pays 10% of income to other firm for raw-material or service
with those numbers (both >=10%), the shop would pay no "tax"
example2:
shop pays 20% of income to employees
shop pays 5% of income to other firms
with those, the shop would pay only 5% as tax. 10% for employees are used, but the production expense is only half used.
example3:
shop pays 5% for employees and 5% for other firms
the shop would pay 10% (both 10% caps only half used)
example4:
shop payes nothing for employees and other firms
it would pay the full 20% tax

this should be the first thing to be implemented, as it will force shops to buy services or employ people. which will give money to the economy.


again:
we should not make too many changes at once. we have a very fragile system here, and if we change in the wrong place it will spoil the game fast.
also, if we change to much at once we dont notice where the spoiling exactly comes from.
 
Originally posted by disorganizer
strider:
it was around that post: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=532453#post532453
and maybe above up to shaitans big post.

also, the per-member money for the groups proposal is missing?

shaitan proposed to let the businesses use the 20% income cutoff for raw-material/service buying and employee payment.

example1:
shop pays 40% of income to employees
shop pays 10% of income to other firm for raw-material or service
with those numbers (both >=10%), the shop would pay no "tax"
example2:
shop pays 20% of income to employees
shop pays 5% of income to other firms
with those, the shop would pay only 5% as tax. 10% for employees are used, but the production expense is only half used.
example3:
shop pays 5% for employees and 5% for other firms
the shop would pay 10% (both 10% caps only half used)
example4:
shop payes nothing for employees and other firms
it would pay the full 20% tax

this should be the first thing to be implemented, as it will force shops to buy services or employ people. which will give money to the economy.


again:
we should not make too many changes at once. we have a very fragile system here, and if we change in the wrong place it will spoil the game fast.
also, if we change to much at once we dont notice where the spoiling exactly comes from.

Both of them is now added to the idea list ;)
 
what about 13 and 14 (well they are in fact the same thing)

i dont like the 11 at all.

and i think 7 would be really hard to keep track of

and what do you mean by 5?

in fact, i would like to see this proposal seperated in 3-4 steps to take. all in one big step would be too much change at one.
smoothness is the key.
 
Originally posted by disorganizer
what about 13 and 14 (well they are in fact the same thing)

i dont like the 11 at all.

and i think 7 would be really hard to keep track of

and what do you mean by 5?

in fact, i would like to see this proposal seperated in 3-4 steps to take. all in one big step would be too much change at one.
smoothness is the key.

I don't think we will have trouble adjusting to these rules....
 
why does no one like the proposal of limiting bussinesses? do you mind someone owning 17 companies?

heres a revised proposal:

No person shall own all of more than TWELVE bussinesses, unless given special permission by the price manager. This is to prevent monopolies by a few elite persons. They are given free rein to use up to TWELVE companies as they wish. This is not to prevent people from gaining riches, only to limit their ability to dominate the markets.
 
@strider: you see here (above) that some points still need discussion. so please push forward point 13/14 first as there was no counter voice. if we wait till we comply on all those point we can implement them next game.
 
Pick one or two that you wish to propose and then vote on those. Putting up everything that was proposed, many of which were not discussed adequately if at all, will sink the RPG back to the chaos of its birth.
 
Nope. People will stay away this time. Remember many people worked hard to put up a "role" on this RPG.
The worst thing to do is spoiling people by destroying the established roleplaying with a restart.
Imagine a RPG game you play, and half way thru when everyone just started identifying with his/her character, someone decides "well, now i like to use 24 sided dices instead of 12-sided. so lets completely start over"...
this is very bad. remember the RPG is not a normal rulebased game, but something with imagination playing in your head. you cant just turn it on and off.
also, in real life rules change all the time. now if we change rules now, it would be explainable.
also, i personally have no problems with some people being rich and others not. im not part of the rich ones. i never tried to be. i even spent money on issues i knew it would be lost (BOV-shares) or i payed too much, just to spread money and keep involved.
 
I think the RPG economy should be based on the Demogame economy. I know I've said this before. ;) (same holds true for techs and resources.) Don't let a bad economy/no resources/techs spoil your fun, be creative! :)

Ok, the economy.

Before hand, we need a set value on resources. These forums allow for PHP to be included in the messages (I think), so that's a way to adjust prices. What we need is a resource file. The Demogame Webpage is still up and running, and has an RPG section. The resource file can be located there.

Ok, to get out of the technical details, each resource will have a set value. For example:

Iron = 500g per pound
Horses = 50g per horse
Saltpeter = 1000g per pound
Coal = 250g per pound
rubber = 100g per pound
Aluminum = 100g per pound
Oil = 20g per 1 gallon
Uranium = 5000g per pound

Gold = 2500g per pound
Spice = 75g per pound
dyes = 100g per pound
furs = 25g per pound
incense = 100g per pound
silks = 125g per pound
gems = 125g per pound
wines = 25g per pound
ivory = 100g per pound

(game, cattle, fish and whales might be handled differently)...

Now, the base value can change depending on where the resource is.

If the resource is in...

our territory and connected = base value
our territory and not connected = base value + 25%
in neutral territory = 50%
we must trade for it = 75%
in another civ's territory (not connected) 100%
in another civ's territory and connected 200% (you gotta steal it from them. :))

Now, this is how the varibles will work. To keep it simple, we'll do this:

0gpt (ingame) = base value
1 - 10gpt (ingame) = base value * 10%
11 - 100gpt (ingame) = base value * 100%
101 - 1000gpt = base value * 1000%
and so on. negative gpt would have the opposite effect.

Example:

Say it's the modern era, and we're making 1500gpt. Now, we want oil, which is 20g per gallon. The resource is now worth 220g per gallon. But, It's also in the Iroquois' territory and connected let's say.. That doubles the price to 440g per gallon.


It might sound confusing and complex (hey, the CURRENT RPG is confusing and complex! :p), but with the game economy tied it, it might spur discussion like "Hey, we REALLY need to get that oil! It's so expensive!". I'm hoping this spurs on more citizen's groups in the citizen forum. While the RPG should be seperate, it should act more like the "community", where outside events affect the RPG.

How will this affect things? Well, for one, you wouldn't be able to have knights until we get the tech for it. If we don't have horses, then no horseracing. BUT... You might find other creative contests. How do you think real life civilizations coped? "Oh, there's no horses, this isn't fun!" :)


Bartering/Currency/Banking

There should be 3 stages, just like real life. Before currency, people bartered for goods. There was no standard. Dare I say it, even Apolyton :gasp!: was creative in having Banana leaves. :) We could pick an item near our surronds as a psuedo "currency" (true currency is metalic or stone coins). Maybe, trading sea shells for goods. (i.e., one might pay 500 shells for 15 cattle. Another might take 20 cattle for 1 hut, but another might pay 2000 shells for that same hut.) It doesn't have to be standard at this level. With currency, the above (way above) mentioned economy becomes more prevaliant.

Banking and Stock Exchanges. This is something we seem to be doing very well with now. ;)

Technology

It's ABSURD to have future buildings/ideas when you don't have the techs for it. It kind of defeats the purpose of a RPG. We have stock exchanges, corporations, and now knights, and castles! We should be able to find a way to create events within the techs that we have. I propose that we stick with the techs we have, and use those to determine RPG events.

Cities and Improvements

This is something I sort of see lacking (something I hoped would be in the RPG). Any improvement built, or being built would affect the RPG. For example, if we're building a Wall in Valhalla (for whatever reason), one of the government officials might come in and post a "Valhalla Wall Project" where you sign up to help build the wall. A more interesting example would be barracks. The barracks in Morgana might be hiring new recruits. Those in there can write "War Stories", such as when they were fighting the Aztecs, or if they're "stationed" in another city (say, Tlaxcala).

Again, this sort of thing can bring up discussions in the citizen forum. Say everyone in the RPG wanted a harbor in Morgana because they wanted fishing contests. They could come to the citizen forum and 'petition' for a harbor - i.e., bring up the discussion.

(I hope everyone sees my points.. And don't say no. :p)
 
Originally posted by Shaitan
It's an evolving organism, Octavian, same as the demogame.

"evolving organism"? :eek: :scared:

:)
 
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