Reformation Beliefs usable by other civs?! (I'm shocked!)

[PaleJackal]

So, playing as Ottomans with some other players and some AIs on Emperor, I founded a religion because Ularu and Sri Pada were nearby. Greece, nearby, also founded a religion and got Jesuit Education and Monasteries.

Long story short, I'm shocked that I don't have to even go into the Piety tree (I grabbed -20% costs since I got Mosques and Pagodas) to get access to something as ridiculously awesome as Jesuit Education. Now I'm torn as to whether I even want to convert my cities back.

Does something similar apply to Glory of God, another good Reformation Belief? Jeez, Piety is even worse than I thought if your foes get the best thing from the tree without even trying!

 

[Yzman]

Religious beliefs go to everyone that follows that religion.

 

[sendos]

Including reformation belief? I thought only founder, enhancer and reformation beliefs only go to the founder, leaving the pantheon and follower beliefs available for others who follow this religion.

 

[Yzman]

Including reformation belief? I thought only founder, enhancer and reformation beliefs only go to the founder, leaving the pantheon and follower beliefs available for others who follow this religion.

Founder beliefs are the only ones that are unique to the founder, all of the others, including reformation, are taken by anyone that follows the religion.

Logically this makes sense and is how it is in game.

 

[PaleJackal]

Logically this makes sense and is how it is in game.

Yeah, but from a gameplay perspective it seems rather atrocious. Maybe I just got lucky, being near an AI who picked up Jesuit Education, but if I could produce missionaries that have Heathen Conversion when the AI picks that, or if I could buy Great People when they pick up Glory of God, that really reduces the incentive to go down the Piety tree.

 

[Yzman]

Yeah, but from a gameplay perspective it seems rather atrocious. Maybe I just got lucky, being near an AI who picked up Jesuit Education, but if I could produce missionaries that have Heathen Conversion when the AI picks that, or if I could buy Great People when they pick up Glory of God, that really reduces the incentive to go down the Piety tree.

If I want one of those beliefs, it wouldn't deter me because some other civ may get the benefits of it. I don't see it any different than any of the religious beliefs in the game ( excluding founder obviously). But that is me *shrugs*

 

[Tarvok]

It makes sense. World religions are by definition trans-national, and thus the benefits would be, as well. You just have to be aware of this when considering whether to aggressively spread your religion.

When designing my religion, I consider whether I'm going tall or wide. If I'm going tall, I'm going to want to get as much out of spreading my religion worldwide, while keeping the local city benefits fairly low. When going wide, I typically want something that's going to benefit my cities (at least one building, for example), while my founder is less focused on the benefits of spreading it to foreigners.

 

[PaleJackal]

If I want one of those beliefs, it wouldn't deter me because some other civ may get the benefits of it. I don't see it any different than any of the religious beliefs in the game ( excluding founder obviously). But that is me *shrugs*

I agree that another AI Civ getting the benefit isn't huge, but unless I'm pursuing a specific strategy that demands a certain Reformation belief (like Byzantine + Sacred Sites), I'd prefer to have a half-decent Reformation belief that I spent 0-2 policies on than spending 6 policies for a chance at a better Reformation belief.

Granted, you can't rely on the AI getting a good Reformation belief.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Founder beliefs are the only ones that are unique to the founder, all of the others, including reformation, are taken by anyone that follows the religion.

Logically this makes sense and is how it is in game.

That's not entirely true.

Enhancer beliefs that are unique to the founder

Just War/Holy Defender/Reliquary/Messianism


Reformation Beliefs unique to the founder

Charitable giving/Underground Churches (only founder spies do it)


Note: these are all beliefs that give bonuses to a Civilization, not a City or a Religion/Religious units.

 

[Gamewizard]

I don't know if this has changed but a while back I had a city get converted to the religion that can buy any great person but I wasn't able to use it.

 

[Yzman]

I stand corrected on those then. Basically it seems like anything that isn't a "city" benefit is only given to the founder.