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Refute the Teapot Argument

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Pontiuth Pilate, May 25, 2007.

  1. Bill3000

    Bill3000 OOOH NOOOOOOO! Supporter

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    No, it doesn't. Evolution does not take into account a theory of biogenesis. And while it does offer a method for the development of later species in which god is not needed, it doesn't disqualify divine intervention; of course, said divine intervention is not falsifiable, but that's not the point here. It only undermines the message of groups of christianity which are not willing to take heed the words of St. Augustine.
     
  2. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    On the contrary, I'd say the fact that billions have believed is pretty powerful.
     
  3. Bill3000

    Bill3000 OOOH NOOOOOOO! Supporter

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    No, it's an argument from popularity, a logical fallacy. It offers nothing regarding the evidence. Billions of people can believe something false. For example, 60% of the US believe in YEC - that does not mean that YEC is correct. Besides, it offers nothing as to what God actually is, as people have widely varying views on what he is.
     
  4. Pontiuth Pilate

    Pontiuth Pilate Republican Jesus!

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    Well,

    1. Billions have believed things that turned out to be really really wrong.

    2. If belief = existence, then does Flying Pasta Ninja Zeus exist if I believe in Him enough?

    3. Saying that something is true because you believe it is obviously wrong, and saying something is more true because billions believe it is not less wrong.



    In short, this is a hilarious argument. You get a kudos from me, for outdoing even the fundies.
     
  5. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Deity

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    The thing is, that no real scientist will say that any scientific theory (not fact, but a theory) is Absolute Truth - if he says that, he is no more scientific them a believer in God. All the theories are just a way of explaining the facts.

    The theory of subatomic particles is accepted simply because it nicely explains all the known facts. That does not mean it is the Absolute Truth. Newton's physics theory was accepted until facts proved it is wrong. If we discover a fact tomorrow which disproves the existence of electrons, the scientists will have to invent a theory which explains the fact.
     
  6. Xenocrates

    Xenocrates Deity

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    Douglas Adams had something to say about this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcncPpQ8loA

    The argument is quite clever IMO and I needed to watch this twice to understand it.:blush:

    I only read the first and last pages of the thread, so I'm sorry if this is old hat:

    The difference between the teapot hypothesis and theism is that we can all agree pretty closely on the definition of a teapot.....;)

    What I'm saying is that two people could argue about the existence of God, one pro - one anti, and both be right 'cause they are using different definitions. Maybe God is impossible to define?
     
  7. Ecofarm

    Ecofarm Deity

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    Thanks alot guys! :mad: Now I have to add the Space Teapot to the litanny of gods that I pray to. I have to cover all my bases and make sure I get into heaven - where I will hang out with all my friends drinking at the beach and pick up hot chicks at night. I'm am NOT, however, praying to Gandalf or the three-armed-invisible fairy. If either of them turns out to be the true god - screw it!

    By the way, I'm taking a que from 'South Park' and leaning heavily towards the Mormon god (don't tell the Teapot).


    Seriously though, what if I told you that there is a force which binds us all. It is the causation and relation between events that we cannot completely conceptualize. It is karma and luck and coincidence all wrapped together. We cannot see it in its entirety and we cannot control it entirely - this is my god. Not an independant entity, but a collective conscience. A god that is neither here nor there, but fills the space between.

    I can prove the existance of causation but I cannot account for all of it in any one event - just as we we do not yet have a unifying theory to go along with E=MC2.

    To wrap things up: Heaven and hell represent the possible futures and all of our souls (defined as influence in this world that outlives the physical body) will (in a sort of 'afterlife') go to one or the other (together), depending on whether society becomes a place where the children do not cry in vain or a nuclear holocaust. Despite this forum, I have faith that we are going to heaven.

    I'm not agnostic. Certainly not atheist. Certainly not a traditional theist. We need a new catagory (and no, lefty moonbat "spiritual" doesn't cut it - I won't be lumped in with new age music, crystal healing, or any of the other established 'alternatives'). Perhaps "Realist".
     
  8. omitrack

    omitrack Chieftain

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    well i'm pretty sure the "faith" of a religious person has value to that person.

    science is the study of things in the universe with the processes fore mentioned. countless discoveries have been made, many based on ASSUMPTIONS. so based on the logic of most people in this forum, it would be foolish to believe in science. it doesn't matter what physical evidence there is, its still foolish.

    I personally believe that there is a God, that He created everything from the subatomic particles that no one can see but still believe are there, to planets which we can see and need no proving. I'm not going to condemn anyone because they don't share my beliefs and i'm not going to criticize them either.

    I believe in God, i believe in the Bible, and i use my belief, my faith, to help me make my decisions. If it turns out that when we die there is nothing else, no after life, no eternity, than thats fine! because i'm not out anything for leading a good life, am i? but if there is, and people who laugh at the mention of a God, a Divine Creator, are wrong... well i wouldnt wanna be them.

    what it boils down to is this: what someone believes about God, faith, science, the universe, its all up to them! it doesn't matter how bad warpus wants Bozo Erectus to be an atheist because its not your concern! at all! the logic is right, you can neither prove nor disprove the existence of a God(by scientific standards at least). so if someone believes in God, good for them, if not thats fine its your choice. now worry about yourself and move on with life.
     
  9. GinandTonic

    GinandTonic Saphire w/ Schweps + Lime

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    Whatever happened to Bozo?
     
  10. ParadigmShifter

    ParadigmShifter Random Nonsense Generator

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    He got married I think (or got a girlfriend at least).
     
  11. schlaufuchs

    schlaufuchs La Femme Moderne

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    So you like the idea of Pascal's Wager, but what if the God that exists happens to be Odin, and you end up in Niflhel for some broken oath or other. Or what if that God is Allah, and he sends you to hell for not being a Muslim? Or, to quote South Park, what if the correct answer was, "yes...I believe the correct answer was...Mormonism. Yes, Mormons go to heaven." Pascal's wager is really not the way to argue your faith.

    And I have no problem with someone taking a deistic approach to faith. What I, and many atheists take issue with, are people who turn to the Bible for moral teachings and their faith.
     
  12. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    And if, when you die, you are put in the presence of a supreme being who hates being worshipped, and hates it when people believe in God, then the joke's on you! :p
     

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