Regarding NES Moderation

[BSmith1068]

As many of you know there has been a lot of drama over the past couple of days and weeks within the NES community. Moderation of actions taken by a subset of members of this community have led to several individuals earning temporary posting bans, and discussion of a portion of the community moving to another forum.

I am starting this thread in an effort to clear the air and to allow members of this community a chance to publicly discuss issues that affect the NES community as a whole.

I would like to recognize that there is some dissatisfaction within the community with the moderation of the NES sub forum. This seems to stem both from disagreement with some of the rules and policies involved and a desire for a member more strongly involved with this community to become a part of the moderation team of this sub-forum.

Let's have that discussion here and now. What are your thoughts on the issues outlined here? Are there any other issues with moderation in NES? What changes in moderation should occur? How would you envision these changes would impact this community in general and specifically WWW? If you feel these changes should include the appointment of an additional moderator, what would/should this person bring to the table that is not already there? Who would you nominate and why?

Note please that this discussion needs to remain civil and within the broader rules of the site – that means no direct attacks on anyone, no flaming and no being a jerk. You want the opportunity to have your voice heard, so here it is. Don't muck it up.

 

[BSmith1068]

I'd also like to set some expectations and clarify some important facts:

First – the NES community is a small, yet tight knit group of posters that have their own sub-culture within the broader CFC site. This is a strong and valuable community with many smart, intelligent and creative members. It is a vibrant community that has a lot to offer to both its members and CFC as a whole. CFC staff has no desire to limit the creativity or ability for this community to get together and play very rich and rewarding simulations and develop interesting collaborative stories.

Second – There has been zero moderation of any action taken in any NES game thread in recent memory. For the most part NESes are smoothly run by competent GMs and have very little need for any kind of intervention by CFC staff. CFC staff also have no desire to dictate how games are run or what you can and can not do as part of a game (so long as the broader CFC rules are followed).

Third – Recent moderator action has been exclusively focused on off-topic discussions or content with a majority of that action revolving around one specific poster and a few other members of the community who do not like his off-topic opinions.

Fourth – The While We Wait thread was created as a venue for discussion of things related to NESes, but didn't fit within a specific NES game thread. It was not created as an area to discuss things that would be better suited for other areas of the CFC site, such as Off-Topic. However, enforcement of the prohibition of OT discussions in WWW has been purposefully lax. This has been for several reasons, but primarily because NES is viewed as a mature community and it can be very subjective as to where the line falls between discussing the mechanics of a simulated reality and reality itself. It is far more desirable to be permissive than restrictive in this environment.

Fifth – NES is part of CFC. This means that the rules of CFC must be followed by all posters at all times. Actions such as trolling, flaming, personal attacks and overall being a jerk to someone can not be tolerated.

Sixth – Everyone is responsible for their own actions. It doesn't matter if someone else is trolling you, being a jerk to you, or otherwise disagreeing with you. You are responsible for your actions, and your actions alone. Retaliating, being a jerk back, or persecuting another individual on this site is against the rules and will be dealt with by CFC staff irrespective of the other individual's actions. If you have a problem with someone else on this site, report their actions or PM a CFC moderator.

Seventh - Not everything that you report will be acted on. If nothing happens or your grievances are not addressed you may ask the assigned moderator for an explanation on why no action was taken. If you do not get an acceptable response you may escalate your issues via PM to a super mod or admin. Do not take matters into your own hands as you will be judged based on your actions. Remember, you alone are responsible for your actions.

Lastly – PDMA – In discussing moderation, you may discuss how and why moderators do what they do as long as the discussion is in the spirit of improving the NES forum. Discussing specific incidents of warnings, infractions, bans, specific posters or moderators is not allowed. A statement of a fact of a warning, infraction or ban you yourself have received without value judgments is allowed. Publicly discussing a specific instance as a "hypothetical" is not allowed.

 

[Wrymouth3]

I feel as though this is a very small step in the right direction on the part of BSmith. I will state that in addition to some certain moderation habits that have occurred recently, there are certain aspects of the NESing community that have for some reason formed a bizarre conception on part of outsiders. As someone who enjoys things notably outside of NES, I have noticed that Nesers who venture outside the forum are frequently attacked and belittled by OTers. As a matter of fact, to me this seems as though OTers automatically have a hostile reaction to those who aren't part of their clique. You will note that one certain moderator berates people who ever post something that is in disagreement with that mod's agenda, and also makes wild accusations and ad hominiem attacks against people who are simply giving their 2 cents.

I am very disappointed that there is a general lack of disregard of the concerns of the NES community recently, because I think the actions within our thread points to an even bigger problem on CFC.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

So, I'm the first to admit that I really have no idea about what happened or why others have had issues with the moderators. I don't know the full the story and would prefer to stay out of whatever the debate was. That said, after thinking about it, what changes are really needed for the future beyond better regulation (either self-regulation or moderator-based) of conversation in While We Wait? Maybe I'm missing something that isn't readily apparent in terms of larger dispute, but it seems to me that the NESing community and forum should be about NESing, and Off-Topic chat should be in #nes or on the Off-Topic Forum.

 

[Thlayli]

Moderator Action: snip. the whole premise of this post was based on a forgery.

 

[BSmith1068]

For the record, that looks like a fake, as that is an automatically generated e-mail where the input the mod has comes in between the "----"s

You might want to check the source of that image.

 

[SouthernKing]

Although I've gone out of my way to avoid WWW and so am not sure what exactly led to the current mess, I must say that I feel a large part of the problem (across the entire side) is the near-complete lack of accountability with the moderation staff. I'm aware that some vague appeals process for infractions exists privately, but that isn't nearly good enough to solve problems that do come up. There's no real public avenue to bring up any issue, even in SF, and whenever issues are brought up - even in completely serious and well-meaning situations - they're usually quashed and deleted immediately with vague justifications of "PDMA." At the very least, there needs to be a public forum of some sort where complains regarding moderation can be raised.

Edit: And, of course, another problem is non-NES (and non-IOT) mods, who have little knowledge of what happens there, entering those respective forums to forcefully handle situations. Both communities have AFAIK had almost entirely positive experiences with BSmith and BJ in the past, and neither of them had anything to do with this.

 

[ori]

Moderator Action: I have removed the image as its blatant PDMA - I will state though that it is a clumsy fake as proven by the automatically logged infraction PMs - if you have grievances with moderators please do bring them to our attention but please do not stoop down to faking "evidence" in order to do so.

 

[Thlayli]

We need to have a broader discussion though. Why is PDMA a problem? What is the logic behind it? Why is censorship a necessary tool to justify suppressing discussion of it?

Philosophically speaking, if the moderators are doing the right thing, there should be no fear of discussing it. Suppression of information in this day and age is a bit backwards, don't you think? I am aware that CFC is not a democracy, but the norms and standards of discussion in a free society are generally held to apply, and censorship of criticism of leadership is not one of them.

 

[ChiefDesigner]

Even if Wrymouth's message was faked, that doesn't change the specific, well-documented instances of nastiness the mods have demonstrated to other users.

Crezth was threatened with a libel suit. Luckymoose was told that there would be no negotiations "with a knife held at [the mod staff's] throat."

If we got taken in by a fake, that is because there is a demonstrated pattern that means fakes like that can be taken seriously.


There is no trust left between this community and the mod staff. That's where it is, now.

 

[ori]

@Thlayll: As actually illustrated by your previous posting of a faked image purporting to show moderator misdemeanor one reason for the PDMA rules is to shield moderators from such bullying - volunteers for this site do not need to subjected to such posts here.

 

[ChiefDesigner]

@Thlayll: As actually illustrated by your previous posting of a faked image purporting to show moderator misdemeanor one reason for the PDMA rules is to shield moderators from such bullying - volunteers for this site do not need to subjected to such posts here.

The bullying runs both ways, don't you think?

ETA: If it was faked, why was I not informed when I posted it in OT? How do we know that the automated queue hasn't been scrubbed, and the SQL database altered, in the intervening time?

 

[Lord of Elves]

I missed that Crezth was threatened with legal action. That is an amusing little anecdote. I like to imagine the responsible party foaming furiously at the mouth while staring down Crezth's frankly obnoxious Elsa avatar.

Anyway.

The casually disinterested repression of complaints and grievances with the moderating staff is approaching Orwellian proportions. I have no intention of going kamikaze with my account on this website, but I am increasingly convinced that there is no home for myself or others in an environment where even the suggestion of dissent is crushed so vigorously. Let's dispense with the formality and politeness or whatever, it's just downright creepy. What are you people doing on a video game fansite that requires this much secrecy?

 

[Kozmos]

Safeguarding ad-revenue for TF I imagine.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

So, why do we need a broader discussion? Why can't we just run and play in NESes? Why is this even a dispute?

 

[Sonereal]

So, why do we need a broader discussion? Why can't we just run and play in NESes? Why is this even a dispute?

Isn't it weird to be the minority?

 

[Lord of Elves]

So, why do we need a broader discussion? Why can't we just run and play in NESes? Why is this even a dispute?

I'm not entirely sure this is the best comparison but I'll just leave this here, it's as good as I can do:

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

I'm not entirely sure this is the best comparison but I'll just leave this here, it's as good as I can do:

But, am I wrong in seeing that the situation entirely is related to things that happened outside of NESes and had zero relation to any NESes? Is this not a forum for NESes?

 

[ori]

Unless the two admins with access to the database are behind a conspiracy to coverup misdemeanor of a mod instead of dealing with such misdemeanor (or of course you believe I am making things up) all other moderators would see that the logged pm in question was edited (not necessarily what was changed though). As no edit happened its already clear that it was not scrubbed. Of course if thats the fear have the pm reported as it is then again logged as is without alterations by anyone.

I disagree that the bullying runs both ways - also I strongly and vehemently disagree that anyone was threatened with a lawsuit. We did receive statements about other users and announcements to go to outside authorities with those statements that were pointed out to be libelous in nature if published as much of what was stated therein was demonstrably untrue. There were no threats about lawsuits in the communication that I am aware of and such would not have been logical anyways as CFC is not party to those disputes. As for the comment you cite towards Luckymoose it may be harshly worded but frankly less harsh and incivil than the tone of posts and messages sent the other way. Expecting perfect civility and calmness from moderators while employing very incendiary language oneself is a compliment to the moderation staff but unfortunately not always manageable.

Edit: this is a response to Chief Designer and crossposted with everyone else.
Edit2: @CD: re your question: your post was deleted and at that time discussion on what to do about it started which was not concluded before it was posted here again.

 

[Thlayli]

Spoiler Lefty Threatening Crezth With Libel :

Here, we have a moderator threatening one of our players with at least, support for a lawsuit, before slapping an unprecedented 30 point ban on him. This "libel" is apparently for accusing an individual rightfully of encouraging and planning violence towards Americans.

Here at CFC, I have been made to feel like my safety is not necessarily prioritized because of the repeated toleration of this individual Amon Savag. Furthermore, the moderators have subjected this forum and its members to a culture of intimidation, and taken heavy-handed actions to prevent further discussion and criticism of those who advocate violence.

I would recommend, as a moderator, either North King or Lord_Iggy to take the role, because they are 1) Active community members, and 2) Extremely well-respected by the majority of forum goers here. The goal would be to keep these disputes in our own forum without involving other mods and disrupting CFC at large, which has now happened.