1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

reinstatement of slavery

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by thedirk, Jul 26, 2001.

  1. thedirk

    thedirk Master of Stealth

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2001
    Messages:
    553
    Location:
    The future centre of the universe
    Do you think that western nations should allow slavery again?

    Seeing that a large portion of goods consumed by North Americans are made by slaves in third world countries, would it not be expedient to have the slaves work in North America instead? That way companies like Disney could put "made with pride in the USA" on their products. It would also save copmanies like Nike the cost of shipping their shoes from third world factories to North American markets. And that way they could afford to give Tiger Woods and extra couple mil. a year.



    [This message has been edited by thedirk (edited July 26, 2001).]
     
  2. TrailblazingScot

    TrailblazingScot I was kittenOFchaos

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2001
    Messages:
    6,861
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brighouse, England
    I´m a slave to my genius...

    ...and no is my answer to your thread.
     
  3. Lefty Scaevola

    Lefty Scaevola Moderatus Illuminatus Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2000
    Messages:
    9,795
    Location:
    San Antonio TX USA
    Very inferior troll, dirk.
     
  4. Az

    Az Emperor

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2001
    Messages:
    1,369
    Location:
    Athenes, Grece
    The fact that slavery still exists in many 3rd world countries is a common secret.

    But legalising it, is another thing. That would be terrible. At least in western countries we do feel sorry about these people and we would like that to stop. Legalising it in our own countries would mean that no one needs to feel sorry anymore since it's legal.
    At least now there are chances that things get better. If slavery is legalised this will stay forever!

    ------------------
    <IMG SRC="http://www.virtuallandmedia.com/img1/flags-4/europe/fra.gif" border=0><IMG SRC="http://jeansebaste.multimania.com/fonttwister/Azz.gif" border=0> <IMG SRC="http://www.virtuallandmedia.com/img1/flags-4/europe/gre.gif" border=0>
     
  5. spycatcher34

    spycatcher34 Guest

    I dont think it should be allowed but only because it would turn the economy upsidedown it would create two major classes we dont have to worry though it would <FONT size="4">NEVER</FONT s>happen this is an interesting topic though
     
  6. Iroquois

    Iroquois Guest

    What actually neads to happen is that there needs to be a Uniform law that the whole planet has to go by that outlaws slavery anywhere, along with other human right violations.

    This would have to be inforced by the U.N. so of course there would have to be some minor changes made in the way the U.N. operates and would need to be a much larger army but I think it would be a very good thing if it could be done.

    All that being said, I realize there would be problems with China and we would probably end up in a war but I think it would be a worthwhile one if the outcome is the end of human rights violations.

    ------------------
    <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/Iroquois/Hi_angry.jpg" border=0><IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/Iroquois/SKULL.gif" border=0>
    "I have brought the good tidings of Peace and Power from the Chief of the Sky Spirits to all people on earth. Bloodshed must cease in the land. The Good Spirit never intended that blood should flow between human beings. 'Yo-Hen. Yo-Hen." -De-ka-nah-wi-da
     
  7. Vrylakas

    Vrylakas The Verbose Lord

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2001
    Messages:
    1,940
    Location:
    Bostonia



    Actually there already is, in the United Nations Charter. Some UN member states ignored it - Saudi Arabia banned slavery only in 1972, and it clearly still exists defacto in Sudan and West Africa - but it is still a powerful message. In the early 1970s a popular Hungarian rock group, Illés, put out an album on which they just quoted the UN Charter on human rights with the occasional chorus "Imagine - I was born a free man! ALL men are born free." What could the communists do; they signed that same UN charter... So don't underestimate the UN. It may seem weak but its mere existance, and what it represents, can be very powerful.

    Slavery does exist today - in Africa, and in a huge underground trade in Asian and Eastern European sex slaves (often children). Simply said, it must be eradicated. It won't be easy - there are some who think the answers are simple - but the reality is it must be done.



    ------------------
    *************************
    "...über den Bergen sind auch Leute..."
     
  8. willemvanoranje

    willemvanoranje Curitibano

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2001
    Messages:
    8,207
    Location:
    Amsterdam/Stuttgart/Curitiba/Lima
    I think that's a very stupid question. Ofcourse the answer is NO! NO slavery.

    ------------------
    And I'm proud to say: 'Ich bin ein Civfanatics Official Reviewer!'
     
  9. duke o' york

    duke o' york It don't mean a thing....

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2001
    Messages:
    3,635
    Location:
    Don't get around much anymore
    This is not going to make any kind of interesting debate because everyone will agree that slavery is not a good idea. For those who do, I suggest that they become the slaves, if needed, and see how much they enjoy it. If slavery was legal and your country was defeated in a war, then you might not be so smug about assuming that it's just for "the little brown people". I'd like to see slavery as a trade resource in Civ 3 though... It has played a big part in establishing the most powerful countries in the world today.


    _____________________________________________
    PS - I remember someone getting into trouble for saying the "Brothers" to refer to black people generally and want to point out that the use of "little brown people" above does not reflect my views. I think it was Bill Hicks who used it in a searing indictment of US military intervention abroad. He does reflect my views <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/smile.gif" border=0>.

    Edit: Spelling mistakes!
    ------------------
    in vino veritas

    [This message has been edited by duke o' york (edited July 27, 2001).]
     
  10. drake

    drake Bring it

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2000
    Messages:
    1,092
    Location:
    Land of the M*******s
    Geez, am I the only one whos sarcasm detector went off?

    All dirks saying I think is that corporations are money hoarding, greedy no good organizations who pay their workers, who turn them a profit in a year, what their spokesperson makes for doing a 30 second commercial......Or something like that.....

    He's razzing these corporations for their lowly practices.
     
  11. duke o' york

    duke o' york It don't mean a thing....

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2001
    Messages:
    3,635
    Location:
    Don't get around much anymore
    Isn't part of the definition of slavery unpaid labour though? He definitely used the wrong word then? Exploitation, yes, but slavery no. Hilarious sarcasm or no, it's still a pretty rubbishy topic. (to which I've posted twice. D'oh )

    ------------------
    in vino veritas
     
  12. thedirk

    thedirk Master of Stealth

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2001
    Messages:
    553
    Location:
    The future centre of the universe
    Drake!

    I'm surprized you are the only one who caught the sarcasm in my post.

    My point was that we in North America who are so solidly against slavery and human right violations, have no qualms about purchasing products made by "slaves". Yes I'm not using that term in the technical sense of unpaid labour. But most sweatshop workers are paid less than a subsistance wage, and many have been sold to factory owners by their families. To me, this amounts to slavery.

    I was merely using sarcasm as a rehetorical device to pint out the double standard we have.

    We condemn countries like China and Vietnam for their human right violations, but then on the other hand we still want Wal-Mart to sell us stuff for really cheap. We can't always have our cake and eat it too.
     
  13. drake

    drake Bring it

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2000
    Messages:
    1,092
    Location:
    Land of the M*******s
    Yeah dirk, I'm pretty surprised myself

    The word slavery does conjur up some very negative imagery, but to think that you actually suggested that it really should be legal is ludicrous.......if people had taken a second to analyze your post, they probably would have realized what your message is all about....
     
  14. Lefty Scaevola

    Lefty Scaevola Moderatus Illuminatus Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2000
    Messages:
    9,795
    Location:
    San Antonio TX USA
    Such as doing so and dismissing it as an inferior troll?

     
  15. hannibol43

    hannibol43 Hannibol Paynebring'r

    Joined:
    May 10, 2001
    Messages:
    72
    Location:
    Oklahoma, US
    Well in the effort of accuracy and understanding let me say that I understand the dirks reason for the thread, I don't think slavery should be legalized here but if it was it would be very shocking for us U.S. "citizens".

    Now to address duke o' york: it is true that slavery as we understand its definition exist in africa south america and asia (and probably in Europe). It has been documented in news cast as well as by this and other governments. Then there is the Corporate "Slavery" or as you put it exploitation. This is when company's like disney and nike have people (children as well as adults) working what we would consider a slave's wages and even in their own country's is not sufficient to sustain a decent living. Now if you hesitate in defining this practice as slavery keep in mind that typically slaves did not work for free but for MEAGER food and shelter. So in looking at it you could consider Corporate exploitation in sweat shops and piss poor wages just as much slavery as what took place in America.

    And as i have made part of my goal in life to destroy the practice of slavery as much as possible starting in Africa. If anyone is considering any raids on slave camps rest assured that Hannibol will be with you at the gated!
    ------------------
    "Hannibol Ad Portas!"

    [This message has been edited by hannibol43 (edited July 27, 2001).]
     
  16. Cunobelin Of Hippo

    Cunobelin Of Hippo Site Pachyderm

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2000
    Messages:
    2,087
    Location:
    The muddy shallows
    No, but all I could think of to say in response to those other guys was...........so I thought that I'd best leave it.

    Dirk 1, Big US Corporations 0
     
  17. Loaf Warden

    Loaf Warden (no party affiliation)

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2001
    Messages:
    1,972
    Location:
    Alaska Grown, currently Outside
    I wonder if Swift got these kinds of responses when he wrote A Modest Proposal.

    "Jeez, Jon, this is stupid! I can't believe you actually think this way! How could you suggest such a horrible thing? This is pretty inferior crap, even for you!"

    Actually, he probably did, so never mind.
     
  18. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2001
    Messages:
    4,212

    What a stupid question, if seriosly asked.

    Even more subtle it that you imply it is OK for "non-western" nations to allow slaverly.

    Indentured servitude, maybe. Slavery in any form, never. BTW, slavery="ownership" of humans. The free choice must always remain with the person!
     
  19. thedirk

    thedirk Master of Stealth

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2001
    Messages:
    553
    Location:
    The future centre of the universe
    Acctually Starlifter, if you read all my posts carefully, you will see that I am not condoning slavery, but accusing the western world of still practicing slavery indirectly through the third party of poor countries, the tool being our consumer practices and large corporations.
     
  20. Leowind

    Leowind Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2000
    Messages:
    1,236
    Location:
    Eugene, OR, USA
    I"m surprised, too, that so few caught the sarcasm in your topic. Haggling over technical definitions of slavery is hardly helping the issue. Our own experiences in the US after the Civil War (freed our slaves) through "sharecropping" and on through the Civil Rights movement should remind us all that being technically "free" can be worse than being a slave. Exploitation in any form, whether slavery or enforced poverty, is inherently wrong and should be eradicated. Unfortunately, human nature being what it is, it is a very difficult job and likely will never be achieved completly. Still, we must fight on.
     

Share This Page