[Religion and Revolution]: Bugs and Todos

[frontiersman]

Orlanth said in post #618:

The Adventurers event is from TAC, the xml for option 2 does set +150 gold plus up to 100 random extra gold; I guess that was intended by the original authors as a bonus for not letting people search for treasure? The slaves uses a separate DLL event system, I don't know the details of that.

Orlanth, thanks for the explanation. I guess I just didn't notice the extra cash previously. I really don't think it's necessary because if you choose to allow the adventurers, you get good and bad. Yes, you get two petty criminals but you also get anarchy for the colony for two turns which shuts down production for that time. That's enough to provide a balanced decision without sweetening the "no to adventurers" choice further, in my opinion.

As for the "slaves" event not recognizing the extra cash, that's understandable as probably those two events were queued up together, and then executed one after the other, so the second one could not react to the consequence of the first. One way to prevent such a thing happening is to try to ensure events are not queued up together. That might be hard to program, however.

 

[raystuttgart]

Or not in the way the civopedia describes?

So first of all, there is also a section in Civilopedia that describes our new Features / Concepts.
(Don't always only look at the Objects like Units, Improvements, ....)

All the effects described at the Objects are correct.
(If you have brought enough horses to your city.)

Bring horses to your cities. (A full cargo slot. Which is 100 in most game speeds.)
Then all effects will work as usual.

The amount of horses you already have stored in your city will otherwise limit the effects of Bonus Resource, Improvement, Specialist, ...

Its a percentage based off of the number of horses you have, from 0 to 100. Or atleast, thats what it appears to be to me. Once you hit 100, its full production.

Correct.

As I have repeated again and again, bring horses / cattle / sheep to your cities.
(I never expected that somebody would understand this by "bring 20 horses only".)

-----

It is simply not possible that I explain in detail all the code implemented.
(It will simply take too much time.)

Read the things I have told you, and you will understand the basic idea.
Otherwise simply relax, take your time and try out the features.
If you then still have problems understanding, simply ask in the thread [Religion and Revolution]: Feedback and Questions.

I know that our mod is a little bit more complicated than what players are used from Vanilla.
And I know that we could do more documentation.

But please understand:
This mod is still in the middle of development and our team is currently quite small.

 

[raystuttgart]

As for the "slaves" event not recognizing the extra cash, that's understandable as probably those two events were queued up together, and then executed one after the other, so the second one could not react to the consequence of the first. One way to prevent such a thing happening is to try to ensure events are not queued up together. That might be hard to program, however.

The DLL-Diplomacy-Events are "precalculated" at the end of the previous round and put into the event queue.
They are supposed to be executed very early in the following round.

The problem you are mentioning is known since TAC (where I first implemented these kind of things), however I have never found a good way of solving it.
(Currently it simply cannot react on the things that have happened in the event queue executed before.)

However, I can catch (and do catch) user input that does not work anymore.

This is a tiny problem that can not cause real problems other than the possible choices for answers not fitting to the new gold.

As for the "slaves" event not recognizing the extra cash, that's understandable as probably those two events were queued up together, and then executed one after the other, so the second one could not react to the consequence of the first. One way to prevent such a thing happening is to try to ensure events are not queued up together. That might be hard to program, however.

Exactly.
(It is also a matter of performance.)

 

[alatari]

Still using SVN 742, but now with the regular (non-DEBUG) DLL, I'm getting an odd occurrence with the "Adventurers" event. When this occurred, I had 179 coins. I chose not to allow the adventurers, i.e. choosing "Our king is the rightful owner...". When I've chosen this before, there is no change in my money. But this time, my coins suddenly increased from 179 to 410! Also, immediately after this, a "slave" event occurred: the king asked if I wanted to buy slaves which cost 360. I could not choose to buy them even though I now had 410. Perhaps that glitch was just because the updated cash balance was not accessed before the "Slaves" event. The main issue is why am I getting 231 coins for refusing the adventurers? Unless the team changed this event to do that for some reason, it does not appear to be acting as it should.

Here is the first screen where I'm prompted whether to allow the Adventurers. Note that the treasury total on the upper left is 179:

Spoiler :

And here is the "Slaves" event immediately following. Note that the treasury in the upper left is now 410, and there is no choice to buy the slaves which cost 360.

Spoiler :

I had a problem with the slave event also. I only had about 450 coins and he wanted to sell me four slaves for something like 4250 coins and the option to actually buy them was there. I clicked it and the game set my coins to 0 and gave me the 4 slaves anyway.

 

[raystuttgart]

I had a problem with the slave event also. I only had about 450 coins and he wanted to sell me four slaves for something like 4250 coins and the option to actually buy them was there. I clicked it and the game set my coins to 0 and gave me the 4 slaves anyway.

4250 ???
I cannot really believe that.

Please send me a Screenshot if you encouter that again.

 

[alatari]

If you are talking about the DLL-Diplomacy-Event:
(Where you see the King's Face.)

There is no special "Acknowledgment" / "Completion of the Mission".
You are also not supposed to completely eliminate the other European.

Of course I want to completely eliminate the other European. Once you start a war with another European there is no real good way to repair diplomacy with them so they will always be annoyed or furious with you the rest of the game and stirring up the natives near you or selling them guns and they will not aid you in the war and they are competing with you for Founding Fathers.

Once you start a war with another European colony, the only good strategy is to annihilate them or they will bite you in your ass later.

 

[alatari]

4250 ???
I cannot really believe that.

Please send me a Screenshot if you encouter that again.

It does not matter what the amount was. It was more than I had and the game actually allowed me to buy 4 slaves when I did not have the coins to do so.

 

[raystuttgart]

Of course I want to completely eliminate the other European.

I did not say that you should not do so.
Play however you like.

I just said "The event does not expect or check anything like that.".

 

[raystuttgart]

It does not matter what the amount was. It was more than I had and the game actually allowed me to buy 4 slaves when I did not have the coins to do so.

I will check the code.
(The wrong answer option might be there, but it should actually not do anything then, if you use it.)

Edit:

In the current revision (Release 1.2) it is defnitely as I said.
Nothing will happen then, if you choose the option to buy but actually don't have the money.

Maybe it was wrong in the old revision.
(I have done a lot of code improvement until then.)

 

[alatari]

I had a bug occur with the Zapotec and English war.

The English were beat but somehow (I guess their Seasoned Scout coming home) they founded a new town and when I go to conquer it it is pillaged and the colonist killed so I can't tell what colonist it is.
Anyway I kill the town and then the Zapotec who are at -16 (-7 threatened, -1 refused to help them in war, -4 traded with our worst enemies, and from the city I kill -4 you have stolen our land) declare war on me. The dialog to pay them the money is up while we are at war music plays and I give them the money and then the events say last "It Is Peace" but the bug part is Zapotec's still think I have stolen their land (-4 you have stolen our land) even though I gave them the money.
The logic got messed up by the declaration of war.

The event logs read:

January, 1585 AD: You have made peace with Cocijoaeza!
January, 1585 AD: You have destroyed the settlement of Newport!!!
January, 1585 AD: You have pillages 14 c from the destruction of Newport!!!
January, 1585 AD: Cocijoeze has declared war on you!
January, 1585 AD: You have captured Newport!!!

 

[alatari]

Maybe it was wrong in the old revision.
(I have done a lot of code improvement until then.)

I'm playing 1.1, the latest I have access to.

 

[raystuttgart]

I had a bug occur with the Zapotec and English war.

The English were beat but somehow (I guess their Seasoned Scout coming home) they founded a new town and when I go to conquer it it is pillaged and the colonist killed so I can't tell what colonist it is.
Anyway I kill the town and then the Zapotec who are at -16 (-7 threatened, -1 refused to help them in war, -4 traded with our worst enemies, and from the city I kill -4 you have stolen our land) declare war on me. The dialog to pay them the money is up while we are at war music plays and I give them the money and then the events say last "It Is Peace" but the bug part is Zapotec's still think I have stolen their land (-4 you have stolen our land) even though I gave them the money.
The logic got messed up by the declaration of war.

The event logs read:

January, 1585 AD: You have made peace with Cocijoaeza!
January, 1585 AD: You have destroyed the settlement of Newport!!!
January, 1585 AD: You have pillages 14 c from the destruction of Newport!!!
January, 1585 AD: Cocijoeze has declared war on you!
January, 1585 AD: You have captured Newport!!!

Actually the DLL-Diplo-Event does exactly that.

It is nothing more than a "Workaround" to prevent the Natives declaring War on you, due to conquering another European City.
(And it reduces the negative effects of the Natives thinking that you stole land. Which is Vanilla and not this mod.)

I cannot get into the process that is running due to conquering the City of the European.
(That is Vanilla.)

-> Natives will think you stole land
-> Natives might declare war

However if you choose the event option to buy:
-> Event will make peace again.
-> Event will improve Attitude to the Natives a bit again.

Summary:

So, it is no bug.
The DLL-Diplo-Event is simply not perfect.

But it prevents even worse effects and ends a war that was delcared in the moment you conquered the European City.
(Which I simply cannot prevent.)

---------

Myself and other players were really annoyed that Natives declared war on the player
simply because the player conquered a close by city of a European.

This feature does stop that.
(It directly ends the war and improves relations a bit again.)

 

[alatari]

-> Event will improve Attitude to the Natives a bit again.

This is what I am saying is a bug. The code did NOT improve my relations with them.
I've seen the code work properly in the Portuguese war where they were at -2 You Have Stolen Our Land and after I give them the money that goes away.

In this case I am still -4 You Have Stolen Our Land after I made the payment.

 

[raystuttgart]

I will check.

 

[alatari]

I will check.

I went back to the last 4 save games and check their relationship numbers.

It was at -2 from a colony I did not have the money to pay them for and then it was at -4 during that turn I describe and this turn (September 1586) it is at -3 now.
It seems like the code reduced it by 1 or the vanilla code aged some of the original -2 away.

I can replay the events again and see if the same error shows.

EDIT: I have the save game the turn I attack and I replayed it a couple times but the Zaps won't declare war this time so it's not being reproduced.

 

[raystuttgart]

It was at -3 from a colony I did not have the money to pay them for and then it was at -4 during that turn I describe and this turn (September 1586) it is at -3 again. Maybe the code did the correction but the diplomacy screen on May 1585 wasn't updated properly?

I checked the code and cannot find any error.

The "Making Peace again" is simply an addition, if war was declared.
The rest of the code is always the same.

Small comment:
The amount of improvement is related to the money you pay.
(It is not directly adding a relationship point. It does that indirectly through the money.)

 

[alatari]

It only happens if they declare war and go back to peace. I've tried 6 times no to reproduce it but they won't declare war this time. I'll have to make them angrier somehow before I attack the English town.

When I have been trying it and they don't declare war the number shows -4 in the diplomacy screen but if you go on to the next turn it's back to -2 correct.

If they declare war and you make the payment does the code restore +2 or +1 to the diplomacy on stolen land? Without the war it's been +2 to bring you back to a net of 0 change.

 

[raystuttgart]

If they declare war and you make the payment does the code restore +2 or +1 to the diplomacy on stolen land ?

It does exactly the same considering attitude if a war is triggered or not.
(But as I said, it is indirectly through the money you pay.)

Edit:
If a war is declared by the Natives by "Conquering European City", the most important point is anyways,
that this event will end that war again ...

 

[alatari]

It does exactly the same considering attitude if a war is triggered or not.
(But as I said, it is indirectly through the money you pay.)

If it is exactly the same whether war is declared or not then a bug certainly happened. After 6 replays I go from -2 to -4 on that turn back to -2 and in my current game I'm at -3 and I paid the 840 coins. It's not a major bug but I'm about to attack another town the English founded somehow on Zapotec lands so maybe they will declare war and ask for the money again and I can see the bug again.

Edit:
If a war is declared by the Natives by "Conquering European City", the most important point is anyways,
that this event will end that war again ...

Yeah, that is a nice correction over the Vanilla code.

 

[raystuttgart]

If it is exactly the same whether war is declared or not then a bug certainly happened. After 6 replays I go from -2 to -4 on that turn back to -2 and in my current game I'm at -3 and I paid the 840 coins.
..
It's not a major bug but I'm about to attack another town the English founded somehow on Zapotec lands so maybe they will declare war and ask for the money again and I can see the bug again.

My Code might do exactly the same.

But weighting the gold given considering attitude might be calculated different if at war or at peace.
(Several layers deeper down in Vanilla Code.)

That is probably the explanation.
(So if you can see an effect, it is no bug in my feature.)