[Religion and Revolution]: Bugs and Todos

[raystuttgart]

Any ideas ?

Not at all.
If the mod loads well the first time it should also load well after that.

What happens if you manually clean the cache before loading RaR the second time ?

If I use the TAC launcher, however, it loads fine.

TAC (300MB) is really small compared to RaR (1.1GB).

We have done a lot of performance tuning (logging, caching, variable handling, logic, graphics, ...) so RaR can still be played well even on Gigantic maps.
But for some weaker computers RaR might still be a bit too much.

 

[Roamty]

in CyEnumsInterface in DLL_Sources


.value("YIELD_SILVER", YIELD_GOLD)
.value("YIELD_SILVER", YIELD_GEMS)

should this not be


.value("YIELD_GOLD", YIELD_GOLD)
.value("YIELD_GEMS", YIELD_GEMS)

or do you have it that way for a reason?

 

[raystuttgart]

or do you have it that way for a reason ?

No, it is an error.
(I will correct it.)

Edit:
Corrected source file and freshly compiled DLL uploaded.

 

[Guynemer]

Not at all.
If the mod loads well the first time it should also load well after that.

What happens if you manually clean the cache before loading RaR the second time ?



TAC (300MB) is really small compared to RaR (1.1GB).

We have done a lot of performance tuning (logging, caching, variable handling, logic, graphics, ...) so RaR can still be played well even on Gigantic maps.
But for some weaker computers RaR might still be a bit too much.

Glad to see you edited your reply; I'll try that when I get to my gaming computer.

For that session that I was able to play the mod, it was phenomenal. Your team has done absolutely masterful work.

 

[Guynemer]

Hmmm.

So that worked. Just as a test, I immediately quit, and tried to start it back up, and it once again stalled out on InitXML (cached).

It appears I'll just have to clear the cache each time before playing the mod. That is... strange.

 

[raystuttgart]

It appears I'll just have to clear the cache each time before playing the mod.

What happens if you set this in CivilizationIV.ini ?

; Disable caching of xml and file system (may slow initialization)
DisableCaching = 1

That is... strange.

Yes it is.
First time I heard about that problem.

 

[Guynemer]

What happens if you set this in CivilizationIV.ini ?

; Disable caching of xml and file system (may slow initialization)
DisableCaching = 1

Well, let's find out!

...

FLAWLESS VICTORY!

You, good sir, are both a scholar and a gentlemen.

 

[agnat86]

There is as little bug in the newest version of R&R. I am getting good relations with the kings because they see Wild Animals as mutual enemies (see screenshot).

 

[raystuttgart]

There is as little bug in the newest version of R&R. I am getting good relations with the kings because they see Wild Animals as mutual enemies (see screenshot).

Oops.
But that is easy to fix.

Edit:

It is fixed in SVN.

Edit 2:

The same will account true for relations to other Europeans.
(They would be improved a bit as well, since you both have "Wild Animals" as enemies.)

I will fix that as well.

Edit 3:

The issues are fixed.

 

[raystuttgart]

I am pretty busy tonight and will be gone the next days.

But could somebody check if the Player being at "war" with Wild Animals worsens the attitude of Natives to the Player ?
(Natives are always at peace with Wild Animals.)

If this is the case, I would need to correct that as well.

Edit:
I just checked and it does not seem to be the case.

 

[Teskal]

I am pretty busy tonight and will be gone the next days.

But could somebody check if the Player being at "war" with Wild Animals worsens the attitude of Natives to the Player ?
(Natives are always at peace with Wild Animals.)

If this is the case, I would need to correct that as well.

Edit:
I just checked and it does not seem to be the case.

The first settlers were in peace, too. Most mass killing (on animals) was later. So they took from the bison herds only what they needed.

Later in the 19th Century was a change, europe (I think it was Prussia) needed leather and the bison leather was perfect (and other reasons).

Same with the Passenger Pigeon and other.

The Natives were hunter-gatherers, they understood why a human must hunt or defend against animals. This peace with animal thought is a romantic view on the natives or every hunter-gatherer.

Here is an animal in the first row of my town:

 

[agnat86]

I like the 2-plot city screen, but it doesn't yet work as it should be, because when my borders expand, all native land is automatically stolen, ruining my relationship with the natives. Is there a way to fix this?

 

[raystuttgart]

I like the 2-plot city screen, but it doesn't yet work as it should be, because when my borders expand, all native land is automatically stolen, ruining my relationship with the natives.

That is exactly the way I wanted it to work.

Either keep your towns small and underdeveloped or expand your cities and thus your area of influence (which might get Natives angry).
It is your choice, where to follow which of those alternatives.

Also don't forget, that RaR offers much more possibilities to keep good relations with Natives.

Is there a way to fix this?

DLL coding.
But as I said, the feature works as I wanted it to.
So I don't see anything I need to fix.

 

[agnat86]

That is exactly the way I wanted it to work.

Either keep your towns small and underdeveloped or expand your cities and thus your area of influence (which might get Natives angry).
It is your choice, where to follow which of those alternatives.

I understand your decision, of course, but aren't you being punished doubly now for empire growth? After all, an increasing population already results in natives getting upset because your way of life is threatening to theirs.

Perhaps it could also work if the attitude penalties both for the threat level as for land-stealing have a maximum. Is there an easy way to do that?

 

[raystuttgart]

After all, an increasing population already results in natives getting upset because your way of life is threatening to theirs.

The only really important aspect is your area of influence.
(Meaning how much land you have stolen them.)

The Natives don't really care about the size of your population.

Edit:

I was wrong.
They do care about the population.
(Just checked the code.)

Perhaps it could also work if the attitude penalties both for the threat level as for land-stealing have a maximum. Is there an easy way to do that?

I was playing / testing with this feature for 2 weeks.
I did not really experience any big problems with Natives when I tried to use Missioning and Trading.

So there is no reason for me to change anything here.

 

[Nightinggale]

I had a game with asserts on and I had an assert when the AI took it's turn. Sadly I have no idea which unit did it as my debugger wasn't running. Still I would like to mention it for reference as something is wrong somewhere.

I didn't manage to make a savegame to reproduce it either.

The assert is in CvUnit.cpp line 3060

void CvUnit::attack(CvPlot* pPlot, bool bQuick)
{
	FAssert(canMoveInto(pPlot, true));

My guess is that this is related to the one time I saw a crocodile on a mountain peak next to the French. It could be that the crocodile had killed a French unit while I wasn't looking. At the time I thought the cultural influence of the nearby colony had expanded and pushed the crocodile away (in which case it would also be a bug).

 

[raystuttgart]

Not every Assert is really problematic or a bug.

Although it would of course really be nice, to eliminate all Asserts, I simply don't have the time and motivation to do so.
(So unless something is really causing a problem, I will probably leave it as it is.)

 

[agnat86]

I was playing / testing with this feature for 2 weeks.
I did not really experience any big problems with Natives when I tried to use Missioning and Trading.

So there is no reason for me to change anything here.

I have been playing the game a little more now, and I must admit that I overestimated the effect of this in the first place. Because of the new culture system, your influence increases faster than it did in previous versions where it was dependent on bells production.

My main issue with this, though, is that it doesn't seem to make sense in the context of the game. After all, if you found a new colony, you are presented with the choice of either stealing or buying native land. Why shouldn't you have this choice when your borders expand (or when you conquer other colonies)? I think that stealing the land should be a conscious strategic decision, not something the game forces down your throat.

Also, a large part of what makes this game fun is the atmosphere, the feeling that you are a real governor, making real decisions, overseeing a real empire and having diplomatic relations with real natives. This feel is quite a bit diminished if the game forces you to behave like a dick. After all, I often play the French, to create a utopian state in the new world that lives in complete harmony with the natives. Currently, this is not really possible in 1.4. (And the choice to keep your colonies small isn't really an option to me, as the game wouldn't be much fun without the empire-building aspect, and you cannot build an empire if you cannot build village halls).

I understand it if you decide to keep it like this, but I really think the game would be much more fun to most players if you were presented with a choice (or alternatively, if you would win native land at the point your influence becomes greater than theirs on a plot).

 

[Nightinggale]

IMy main issue with this, though, is that it doesn't seem to make sense in the context of the game. After all, if you found a new colony, you are presented with the choice of either stealing or buying native land. Why shouldn't you have this choice when your borders expand (or when you conquer other colonies)? I think that stealing the land should be a conscious strategic decision, not something the game forces down your throat.

Basically you are asking for a new feature rather than reporting a bug if I read this right.

Basically you want an on/off switch in the colony saying "allow cultural overtaking native land", right? Or possibly you should be asked each time a tile is trying to switch (though that could easily be a lot of popups asking you this over and over).

It's not a bad idea, but I don't know if you can get anybody to code it. That might be the hardest part of this.

 

[agnat86]

It's not a bad idea, but I don't know if you can get anybody to code it. That might be the hardest part of this.

I understand that, of course. I would have changed this myself, if I only knew how. The best solution would probably how it was handled in the original Colonization: natives keep their land, and you can buy or steal it from them by clicking on the tiles in your city screen. But I have no programming experience whatsoever, I'm afraid.

To me, the most easy way seems to have ownership of land switch when your influence is greater than theirs. Maybe I just don't understand how this game functions, but it already worked like this in previous versions, so it doesn't need to be a new feature, does it?