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[Religion and Revolution]: Feedback and Questions

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - Religion and Revolution' started by raystuttgart, Jul 13, 2012.

  1. agnat86

    agnat86 Warlord

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    I'm definitely going to try it, I did not spend hours playing only to stop before declaring independance. But when the king is increasing his army at this rate while I'm only at 30% rebel sentiment, I wonder how I'm ever going to reach 50% before the king's units number in the thousands.

    Yes. You can not see it in the screenshot, but the size of my standing army is less than a tenth of the army of the king. Even if I could manage to find enough colonists to turn all guns into soldiers, and the industry to convert all cannons to cannon regiments, this would increase my army by about 200 units. That may seem a lot, but my army would still be dwarfed by that of the king, and because the rate at which he increases his army is more than ten times higher than mine, the difference in strength will be much greater at the point where I actually can declare independance. I don't think this is anywhere near balanced.

    Because when you compare my two screenshots, you'll see that I gain 64 cannons, 338 horses and 236 guns per turn. I've built a cannon that turn, so my real cannon production is 124/turn.

    This means that I produce an amount of weapons each turn with which I can build 2 cannons and equip 3 cuirassiers. That is 5 military units each turn, and then I'm ignoring that I need colonists and hammers to actually build them.

    If the king counters that by producing 76 military units each turn, then yes, I'm wondering if there is something that needs to be changed here. If the king's army grows fifteen times faster than mine, then there's a discrepancy.


    Maybe the great increase is caused by the amount of weapons I have in store, but in that case I think the influence of that is way too extreme. You say that people didn't have these troubles in TAC, but TAC didn't have gigantic maps, and the correspondingly large REFs. I don't think the amounts of weapons I have here are that extreme for the early 18th century on a gigantic map.

    Also, TAC didn't have cannons, which meant you didn't have to stockpile weapons to produce cannon regiments, so they only counted towards your total strength at the point where you actually had built them, and they were ready for use. Now they also cause growth of the REF in all the preceding turns when those cannons are sitting uselessly in the warehouses.

    Do you also know about players who won the WOI in RaR on a gigantic map? Because I don't think you can use experiences from TAC to judge about RaR. The two mods are vastly different in complexity and scale, and I think it would be a small miracle if the same codes for the REF would work perfectly for both of them.
     
  2. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    I have. :)
    (Although I cannot remember which release it was.)

    It was a challenging battle, but it was fun that way.
    (The king took several of my cities in the later waves but I was able to reconquer all step by step.)

    Just a few points:

    1. I am currently playing a new game.
    I am not that far yet, but I do not experience any strange behaviour considering REF.
    (And have not experienced any bad behaviour of REF in my other test games.)

    2. Your strategy of stockpiling that many weapons so far before you could actually declare Independence is not very ideal.
    I cannot say anything about the rest of your strategy.

    3. RaR offers many new features that will help the player.
    (Permanent Alliances or Forts for example.)

    To summarize:

    If I find problems with balancing I will change it.
    Until I find these problems, I will not change balancing.

    I did not balance for "bad strategies" like stockpiling 40.000 horses, weapons and cannons so far ahead of WOI.
    If such a strategy does not work out, than it is not necessarily a problem of the mod.
    It is a matter of style of playing.

    As I have said many times already, modding is a matter of taste.
    RaR is aimed a little bit towards experienced players.
    I like it challenging. I don't want to make the mod "nice and fluffy".

    There is a Game Option that reduce REF by 50% for unexperienced players.
    Simply use it, if REF is too big for you.
     
  3. Will The Viking

    Will The Viking Chieftain

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    Ray, Schmiddie, thanks for the response - it must just be my style of play. I like building a massive sprawling empire and trading, so I don't focus on the bells so much. This probably leads to it being difficult for me to DoI. The fact that the AI doesn't DoI might be worth looking at, but given no one else has raised it, I wouldn't spend any valuable time on it if it isn't a wide concern.

    Out of interest though, is there a way of giving the AI a bigger advantage on the very higher levels? Although I don't win by DoI, I very rarely find the AI has a higher score or challenges for domination or economic victories.
     
  4. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    There are lots of settings in CIV4HandicapInfo.xml to increase many different cheats for AI.
    (Free Immigration, Modifier for Buildings, Extra Money from Trade, Extra Combat Modifiers, ...)

    Simply do whatever you feel appropriate. :thumbsup:
     
  5. vetiarvind

    vetiarvind Prince

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    I have a question: I often find that in the city screen, when you have turned off labour automation and not emphasized\deemphasized any resource production, workers change profession on their own accord when I remove or add or change a unit's profession. This can be quite troublesome when you're trying to "train" a free colonist into a profession. Is this a feature or a bug? I haven't noticed this behaviour in the vanilla or TAC. If this is a feature (perhaps a way to optimize resource production) is there a way to switch this off?
     
  6. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    I had noticed that behaviour in TAC as well sometimes.
    (Never really played Vanilla but I believe it came from Vanilla already.)

    It is definitely not a feature that has purposely been implemented in RaR.

    You can use the little "lock" symbol (lower right corner of city screen) to prevent something like that.
    Then City-AI will not move citizens by itself.
     
  7. vetiarvind

    vetiarvind Prince

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    I have a suggestion. While capturing multiple colonists, would it be possible to only show one alert message to the user such as "You have captured multiple colonists". Currently, while capturing large cities, there are times when we capture a stack of 20+ enemy colonists, and having 20 alert messages for that with the sound effect seems a bit unpolished. I don't remember if this is specific to RaR though but could be an improvement if 1.8 is not going to be released soon :dunno:
     
  8. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    No, this is not specific to RaR.
    It is basically still Vanilla behaviour.

    I never really felt that it is a problem to get notified about several units captured.
    Some players might even be interested in that information.

    ------

    We are really only waiting for some background graphics for Port Royal.
    Then we will do some last testing and finally publish Release 1.8.

    Otherwise there will be no more changes to current internal version (which is basically Release 1.8) unless it is a bug fix or necessary to fix a real problem.
    (There have been way too many changes and way too little testing already. We - Schmiddie and myself - simply currently do not have enough time for modding.)
     
  9. vetiarvind

    vetiarvind Prince

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    How does one access the Africa screen in Release 1.8? Other than when it shows up when a ship docks in Africa. I guessed "shift+F2" correctly but nowhere does it say so in colopedia nor is there a menu button for it. (i expected to see one near the "europe" button).
     
  10. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    It is there for me. :confused:
    (And I am using the exact version from the download.)

    Simply take a look at the buttons at the top of the screen.

    Did you clean your cache ?
    Maybe it is related to that.
     
  11. vetiarvind

    vetiarvind Prince

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    Maybe it has something to do with Schmiddie's old submod not being compatible with 1.8 fully(and must have overwritten that change). I should have tested on the original.
    Edit: Just saw that Scmiddie's edition is for 1.6 and he'll upload the latest one.
     
  12. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    Well, I have no idea what happens when using (the wrong version of) Schmiddie's Submod together with Release 1.8. :dunno:

    But in the download of Release 1.8 itself everything seems correct.
    (I tested the download last night before posting the news in the forum.)
     
  13. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    "Problem" is, that I am a programmer. :)
    I am pretty lazy and not very good in writing nice (meaning atmospheric) pedia texts.

    In TAC we had team members that focussed on such things.
    (Pedia Explanations, Explanations in Forum, Wiki for the mod, Handbook, ...)

    In RaR, we never found reliable team members interested in something like that.

    And there is a lot to discover. :)

    Actually I figured out, that there are a lot of small features that people that simply download the mod (after 2 years of intensive development) and start playing, often do not know at all.

    Examples:
    • Improved Custom House Screen
    • Stirring Up Natives with Missionaries
    • Favours from the Archbishop
    • Drying Swamps and Planting Trees
    • ...

    It is even more a pitty when new modders do not know the features we implemented.
    For example, there were modders creating maps for our mod and did not know, that they could define "Random Goodies" in Maps for RaR.
    Others trying to program DLL logic did not know about cheat menu and Autoplay (still from TAC) that help with testing.

    The people that have been following us over the complete development time or carefully read our Mod Development thread usually do know.
    (Because every single feature implemented was explained there.)

    It is a pitty though, that some features get completely missed by some players.

    That is why I desperately hoped for Let's Play Videos, Strategy Guides, a Wiki, ... that our community could create.
    A lot of those things started but never got completed ...
     
  14. vetiarvind

    vetiarvind Prince

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    I think having a crude "feature list" would really do fine here. No one expects a fancy tale, especially for non-vanilla features(although they would be nice). I guess I could help write some of the colopedia's article if you're still planning on updating the release.

    I'm not sure "Let's play videos" are a good idea for turn based games. I love playing them and have a few friends who'd enjoy watching me play but as a gamer I've never enjoyed watching others and i guess most are like me, esp. since a single col game can take so many hours. As for strategy guides, there are many threads here that help players improve their play. Also, part of the fun is to learn as you play and developing new strategies.
     
  15. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    That is our Overview. :)

    I don't have any plans.

    I am simply still around to answer some questions from community and maybe give some explanations and (limited) support to modmodders.

    Yes it is. :)
     
  16. vetiarvind

    vetiarvind Prince

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    I was referring to more game-related features in the colopedia articles. For instance, the "Port Royal" article could use details such as only non-flag flying ships can access it, access is available via europe-zone tiles, etc. Just compiling the specs found in the forums and pasting into the colopedia with minor formatting should do. Some might say it breaks the "theme" of the game, but I think it's better to have more details. Most articles are detailed enough though.
     
  17. Tre59

    Tre59 Chieftain

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    How to acquire horses? Titles are empty.
     
  18. Commander Bello

    Commander Bello Say No 2 Net Validations

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    You have to have a basic stock of horses in the city to which the tile belongs. Same is true for sheep and cows.
     
  19. vetiarvind

    vetiarvind Prince

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    @Tre59: Check the Game Concepts->Breeding Cattle or Sheep page on colopedia. Also, your production of horses will scale depending on how much of it is stored from 0-100 so you have to make a decision as to whether to invest in 100 of a lifestock to kickstart rapid production or slowly ramp up your production from say 20-50. The "horse" yield means that tile is suitable for horse production, doesn't mean that there are horses available (since there aren't any horses in the new world)
     
  20. adrian80

    adrian80 Chieftain

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    On my latest playthrough (1.7), the king didn't increase his Ref size once.

    I was in very good relations with him, having sucked up to him on every single opportunity, so that must've had a big impact. And map size was only standard, another big factor I guess.
     

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