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[Religion and Revolution]: General Questions and Discussions

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - Religion and Revolution' started by raystuttgart, Sep 3, 2011.

  1. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    Currently it's only 100 * units_in_city.
    In comparison, in Civ IV it's 1000 * (city_population_number^1.7 + 3*city_population_number)
    So yeah, there is definitely room for improvement.
    Probably a more linear approach like the one in your post is more fitting for Colonization. Adding era/year-based modifiers probably solves all potential issues.
     
  2. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    Based on Nightinggle's idea I would probably add it this way, if 100 is the desired population/unit in the beginning, and say 1000 in the end:
    100 * (total_turn_number + 9 * current_turn_number) / total_turn_number
    So it's 100 * 1 on turn 0, and 100 * 10 on the last turn.
     
  3. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

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    https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...mod-development.438716/page-138#post-13621160
    According to this, the number of people for each unit should be 10k in late game. It totally doesn't work early on though. Notice that this topic was actually started by the French translator (not me) :rolleyes:

    I think the turn counter is 0 indexed, which would result in 0 people in the first turn. Most likely nobody would notice, but still....

    Also in custom games, time can be disabled. What if somebody decides to play a near endless game? Should each unit end up being worth one million people?

    I think it would be better to have
    PHP:
    start population 100
    end population 
    10.000
    end turn 
    300 //(or whatever. It can be modded and affected by game speed)
    population for each unit =
                  (
    end population start population) * current turn
    population 
    = ---------------------------------------------------- + start population
                                    end turn

    if turn >= current turn
       population 
    =  end population
    This will start with the start population (100) and gradually increase by a little bit every single turn (not in sudden jumps). Once the game should end according to turns, the number just stop increasing, preventing the numbers from going insanely high and overflow.
     
  4. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    No, in turn 0 it's 100 * total_turn_number/total_turn_number, thus 100
    Actually I wrote the very same formula as you :)
    100 * (total_turn_number + 9 * current_turn_number) / total_turn_number == 100 + 100 * (10 - 1) * current_turn_number/total_turn_number
    100 = start population and 1000 = end population in my example
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
  5. PlotVitalNPC

    PlotVitalNPC Chieftain

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    How do I find my turn number?
    I'm at November of 1674 on Marathon length, but and the only thing I can find regarding how long I've been playing. (aside from '12 hours noncontinuously' on this game)

    I'm interested in running the math manually.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2017
  6. ConjurerDragon

    ConjurerDragon King Supporter

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    For older census’s usually not the number of persons, but the number of taxable hearths was counted. So every number could represent a 5 or 10 times multiple of persons.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearth#Hearth_tax
    e.g. a number of 5 residents is assumed per hearth for the number of taxable hearth in the Ottoman Empire
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Ottoman_Empire#Census

    For e.g. New England 55K people seem right until 1660
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_the_United_States#Historical_population
     
  7. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    IMO 10.000 is way too much for the late game.
    With players easily having 5-600 units in the cities it would mean 5-6 million people.
    I even remember a report of ~3000 units (must have been a logistical nightmare) on a huge map, which would mean 30 million people on the colonies!
    Btw, the values should also be modified to some extent by the map size.
     
  8. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

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    Point well taken, but they aren't 100% identical. One is a lot easier to read :p
    I used variables, which means it would be possible to set the numbers in XML if we like. Also I added code to try to avoid overflow in really long games. While they are fundamentally the same, they still aren't 100% the same.

    Interesting point and it makes sense. Censuses were mainly used for tax purposes and estimating the amount of people, which could be recruited for military service. In that perspective, the number of people under the age of 10 wouldn't make any difference at all.

    Try to follow the link. It compares 10k population against real world historical populations and they match up just fine when taking number of colonies and size of each colony into account.
     
  9. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    Sure, but you wrote actual code, while I only mentioned what should the calculations look like.
    I'm just glad we agree that that is the best way to handle the increasing population numbers :)
     
  10. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    On map size modifiers I wouldn't go overboard.
    It's hard to estimate what would work best.
    Maybe something along the lines:
    0.5 multiplier for the biggest possible maps, 2 for the smallest, with everything proportioned in between.
    (so the same unit number means more on small maps, less on big ones)
     
  11. Schmiddie

    Schmiddie Emperor

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    Hi Folks. I'm happy to see that discussions about game features are still present.

    I'm with you that there is room for improvement. I started a testgame yesterday and after approx. 150 turns I had a population of 3600 and troops of approx 20k. I cannot make a contribution in regard of the "best" Code for solving this issue but I agree that we should have a Code that represents fewer people at the beginning and rising during the game - and if possible as realistic as possible. :)
     
  12. ConjurerDragon

    ConjurerDragon King Supporter

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    If a population of 3600 would field 20K troops there is something seriously wrong. Even a military civilization should field roughly 4% of it’s entire population. If the number of soldiers becomes larger than the number of civilians those soldiers should cost food to maintain in the field similar to Civilization, and not the population artificially raised to fit the number of soldiers.
     
  13. Schmiddie

    Schmiddie Emperor

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    This is only a minor aspect. We will have a look when possible. It does not affect the gameplay and is only a statistic issue.
     
  14. ConjurerDragon

    ConjurerDragon King Supporter

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    In my current game an automated whaling ship has earned enough experience (perhaps by running over a shipwreck) to gain promotions. One of those offered is the Bombardment (Solid Shot +siege). Is there a way to prevent civilian (fishing/whaling) ships to ever gain military promotions like Bombardment and instead gain something similar to the Rangers Animal Hunting but vs. sea animals?
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
  15. Schmiddie

    Schmiddie Emperor

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    Lol, these promotions have been implemented so long ago and you're the first who mentions that trading ships can get this promotion. :goodjob:

    I will correct that....and nice idea. I have implemented two promotions similar to hunter for ships. :thumbsup:
     
    ConjurerDragon likes this.
  16. PlotVitalNPC

    PlotVitalNPC Chieftain

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    You've gotta love those joyous times when your focus on heavy naval construction allows you to end your revolutionary war without the expeditionary force making landfall even once.
     
  17. ConjurerDragon

    ConjurerDragon King Supporter

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    Following the link in your signature the file is described as "updated May 6th"?
     
  18. Schmiddie

    Schmiddie Emperor

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    Generally yes, but the current download has not been updated yet. We will put it into the next version. Don't know yet when it will be published.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2017
  19. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    Probably a version 2.6 should be released ASAP, when most things seem stable and the planned updates are in.
    Would stop the confusion about different RaRE and RaR versions, all labeled as 2.5.x.
     
  20. Schmiddie

    Schmiddie Emperor

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    I HATE the word ASAP....know this from daily business. Please keep calm. Will be issued when it makes sense. We are not in a hurry.:D
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2017

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