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Religion Master Thread

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Aug 16, 2013.

  1. Jusos2108

    Jusos2108 Chieftain

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    Yeah, they come pretty close too.
    Yet, I am familiar with both's genesis stories and in case you aren't familiar with Mormon genesis (BoM), I wouldn't rule it completely out, if I were you. It is astonishing to say the least.. I have to give these guys credit though for making such unbelievable stuff up.

    [Statement by Jusos2108's lawyer: Jusos2108 does not accuse Scientology of any criminal activity. This statement is merely the opinion of Jusos2108.]
     
  2. NorwegianSalmon

    NorwegianSalmon Chieftain

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    Since Hayam Wuruk is an Indonesian leader, they also represent the Majapahit, which I believe was Hindu. Though Indonesia represents both Buddhist, Hindu and Islamic states.
     
  3. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    True, but Indonesia rarely ends up being Hindu ingame.
     
  4. Tomorrow's Dawn

    Tomorrow's Dawn Heroes Never Die

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    The main difference that separates Mormons from all other denominations of Christianity is the interpretation of the Trinity.

    Agreed. Catholic, Protestant & Orthodox is the way to go.

    But even then, many Hindu & Taoist temples do dedicate themselves to one god in the respective pantheon.
    Like temples dedicated primarily to Kali or Guan Yu for instance, despite the acknowledgment of other peers in the pantheon.
    And I'm not sure where wonders factor into this, or what you're trying to get at.

    We need a better defining line than that.
    Well, with Hinduism & Taoism, one could argue that they had a more lasting impact and benefited from more stable spread.
    Hinduism spread to Southeast Asia and the Malay Peninsula,
    while Taoism has influenced Corea & Japan (both instances not very well represented currently ingame however).
    In the context of the worship of the Pesedjets or the Annunaki, they were only spread and accepted from their respective conquerors.
    Hellenism was spread via both, being conquered and conquest.
    But then Zoroastrianism falls under this category as well then, except that it still exists in organized form today, albeit not comparable to the influence Hinduism & Taoism wield.
    The only difference now (between Hinduism & Taoism with extinct polytheistic religions) is that Hinduism & Taoism have lasted
    longer and still exist today, showing many of their traces in cultures that were exposed to their influence.
    With the ancient polytheistic religions I described previously, they are all but extinct and the only traces they've
    left behind are on aspects of Christianity, Islam or Judaism, as well as minute aspects of a number of cultures as well.

    Separate from this debate, I want to briefly rationalize my proposal of Vodoun though.
    It covers West Africa, the Caribbean and the American South for the most part, in consideration to size.
    It is syncretic with Christianity, so there is that to bear in mind, when considering inclusion.
     
  5. Tomorrow's Dawn

    Tomorrow's Dawn Heroes Never Die

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    I see. I don't know how I missed this post.
    So effectively, by your own standard, we can omit Hellenism & Shinto as well as Aesir worship then.
    Although, I think this does warrant my Tengrism suggestion much more merit then,
    because it was a primary religion for a collection of multiple steppe peoples, as opposed to just one.
    It has good standing as a minor too, considering that even in the places where it would take hold, none of the civs that would occupy those regions should even consider adopting Tengrism as the main thing.
     
  6. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Yeah, Tengri would definitely be more interesting than the others mentioned.
     
  7. iOnlySignIn

    iOnlySignIn Prince$s

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    Tengriism should spread with the Seljuk/Mongol expansions and have benefits either to Pastures/Pasture resources and/or reduced City Maintenance costs.

    Voodoo should spread from West Africa (Mali and Kongo) to New World colonies which have settled Slaves or Slave plantations and provide small benefits of :culture: and :).
     
  8. Tomorrow's Dawn

    Tomorrow's Dawn Heroes Never Die

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    Any comments on Sikhism?
     
  9. iOnlySignIn

    iOnlySignIn Prince$s

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    I was thinking about the Harmandir Sahib Wonder recently.

    Sikhism should provide an XP bonus to cities it spreads to (perhaps through a building - Gurdwara: +5% :science:, +1 :health:, +2 XP to Land Units), whereas the Harmandir Sahib Wonder should do something else. I'm thinking

    No Stability penalty from combat losses. All units heal an extra 10% HP per turn.

    The current benefits of Harmandir Sahib is less appropriate, since it gives extra XP to all cities with your state religion (presumably Hindu or Islam) but the Sikhs are known from their armed resistance against Hindu/Islamic forces.

    Harmandir Sahib should also require a number of Gurdwaras (3 would be appropriate) for its construction.
     
  10. phoenix_sprite

    phoenix_sprite Chieftain

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    I was thinking about it... It'd be so much easier to just nerf the religious wonders to benefit certain buildings or the city their built in only.
     
  11. brett0007

    brett0007 Chieftain

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    What if christianity starts as a minor religion until the Apostolic Palace is built and splits it into catholicism and orthodox christianity? That way it represents early pre-schism christianity better than orthodoxy just splitting off of catholicism when the Apostolic Palace is built.

    Perhaps make the the Apostolic Palace the catholic shrine to represent the popes central role and give the Current Catholic shrine (can't remember its name) a commerce/stability boost to any christian faction holding it?
     
  12. mrrandomplayer

    mrrandomplayer Potentially back

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    I think that is an interesting idea.
     
  13. Malchar

    Malchar Chieftain

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    My interpretation was that the shrine generated gold because it was a pilgrimage site. I may be wrong, but I don't think that the Apostolic Palace is really a pilgrimage site. It would actually make more sense for the palace to be the building that provides the commerce and (especially) the stability boost based on its historical role.
     
  14. NorwegianSalmon

    NorwegianSalmon Chieftain

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    It is a major Christian pilgrimage site: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_pilgrimage

    Now of course, the Apostolic Palace is located in Rome, where a lot of major Christian events happened (death of Peter and Paul, for example). I find it difficult to speculate as to whether the Apostolic Palace would have been a pilgrimage site had it been built in an unimportant city. I think it would, but it would not have been as important.
     
  15. therox

    therox Hydralisk

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    Dude , I've been to the Apostolic Palace and there are A LOT of people there , today it may not be 100% pilgrimage site , but it is a big touristic site
     
  16. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    The borders between pilgrimage and tourism are kind of blurred today anyways.
     
  17. iOnlySignIn

    iOnlySignIn Prince$s

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  18. Malchar

    Malchar Chieftain

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    I've been there too. It's quite nice, and there definitely are a lot of tourists. However, during the first 500 some years of the building's existence, I feel like it was more of a commerce/stability building than a tourist attraction or even a pilgrimage site.

    I'm not sure what the overall plan for religion is, but I think that Catholicism is looking pretty good as-is. If each religion is going to have a shrine and a second building that provides a unique bonus (and correct me if this isn't what people are advocating) then I like following the precedent of having the holy shrine be the building to give the gold bonus and having the Apostolic Palace provide the unique bonus (be it diplomacy, hammers, stability, commerce, or whatever).

    I know that some of the other religions might be changed so that the shrine provides something else, and that seems fine, but I think that keeping gold for Catholicism makes a lot of sense, so you might as well keep the shrine as the building to provide the gold.
     
  19. Pavel Chichikov

    Pavel Chichikov Chieftain

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    Tell me about it. Like regular tourism wasnt tacky enough.
     
  20. ImNotHere

    ImNotHere Chieftain

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    I have a thought:

    Sikhism

    Founded: First city to build both a Hindu temple and an Islamic temple. This would likely restrict the founding to the time and place that it actually occurred.

    Building: Gurdwara, +1 :health:, + 2 xp/unit trained in that city or maybe city defence I for each unit built there. The health comes from the whole fact that they are shelters for the poor and hungry, offering food and shelter to anyone who comes, and the XP/promotion from the fact that Khalsas are supposed to be warriors who defend the weak.

    Harmandir Sahib: I guess that IOSI's suggestion would be appropriate given the purported healing properties of the water, although I think it should also include an income boost, like +3 :gold:/ Gurdwara to represent pilgrims.

    Also, would it be too favouritist/imbalanced to spawn Guru Nanak upon founding? Although the other 9 Gurus contributed many things, Guru Nanak really is the source for most of the philosophy of the religion.
     

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