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Religion

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Robert FIN, Dec 9, 2012.

  1. Robert FIN

    Robert FIN Monty n' Roll

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    This is my 1st thread!!!! Yippee! :band: And I just wanted to know what do you think about religions? Is it useful to get early religion? Other comments? And by the way I want to see what the mighty Oz-Man thinks about religions in civ iv! :banana:
     
  2. Strickl3r

    Strickl3r Prince

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    It's not that usefull, if you found a religion yourself, getting the great prophet for the shrine and build up missionarys to convert AIs. There are better things do do with the Hammers and the Research.

    Sometimes, if u get CoL from the oracle and get a great prophet by chance(not what u actually want) and converted someone with your first missionary who then spreads the religion for u, it comes in handy to have a ~+9 gold shrine at the beginning without any great affords.

    But you will only find it out on higher difficultys for yourself that there are better things to do thedn founding and spreading religions, since on lower difficulties even a mediocre strategy like getting a shrine and a lot of money from it, feels like owning the AI :)

    Role playing can be fun of course -> founding christianity and make a holy crusade :king:
    or maybe if you are isolated it can be usefull to get a religion for the happiness and organized religion boost.
     
  3. Toxicc

    Toxicc Chieftain

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    It's basically always better to let the AI found the religions. When the AI founds a religion, they're going to be spending their hammers building missionaries to spread it rather than building units they could use to kill you or research or wealth they could use to out-tech you.

    Shrines are nice, but it's better to capture one rather than found the religion and build it yourself and build missionaries to get money for it. Because by building military and taking it, you get the shrine, the city, and probably some more cities for a better return on your investment than by teching an early religious tech and spreading the religion yourself.

    However, getting Confucianism by teching CoL first or Taoism by teching Philosophy first are signs that you're doing pretty well as far as research goes. It also makes the AI less likely to go after those techs since they'll no longer get the religion, which means you can probably beat them to Liberalism and get a free tech.
     
  4. jarhead_leif

    jarhead_leif Civ2ToT Modder

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    More religion present to your city is the better.

    Higher :) cap, more :culture:, more :science:, and some additional :hammers:(with AP). Religion is crucial in winning cultural victory, of course.
     
  5. Robert FIN

    Robert FIN Monty n' Roll

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    So most of pro players think that religion is quite smelly right? 1 thing I know is that Justinian takes religion too seriously! He is gonna ragequit or kill me if I don't convert to his buddyhism...And he spawns in every single map :mad:
     
  6. duckstab

    duckstab Child of Noble Family

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    I'm not sure what you mean by this. The only point I hear consistently made is that going out of your way to found a religion (especially the early ones: Buddhism, Hinduism, and Judaism) is usually a mistake.

    Religion is weighted very heavily in Civ4 diplomacy. Justinian and Isabella in particular are both known religious zealots. There's a flip side, however. If you do share a religion they'll be your best friends in the world.

    If you're seeing Justinian in every game, it's really just bad luck. Byzantium is no more likely to spawn than any other civ, however, since he's the only leader for them he is going to show up more often than, say, Roosevelt or Churchill.
     
  7. Pengu

    Pengu Prince

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    Just is a religious zealot who is a decent techer and expand alot. Still rather him as your neighbour than Shaka who is going to kill you no matter what religion you or him worship...
     
  8. Izuul

    Izuul Level 86

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    I actually enjoy Shaka on my maps. Sure it sucks if he attacks you before 1000 BC, but once you get Alpha you can basically feed him old techs and use him as an attack dog. It's a little unnerving when he pops up as my neighbor, but seeing him anywhere else on the map usually brings a smile to my face.
     
  9. Robert FIN

    Robert FIN Monty n' Roll

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    Duckstab: Thanks! I still have to say that the difference between those "zealots" is: Justinian is disgusting warmonger and Isabella is really kind and I'll convert to her religion anytime and she looks... Forget that... :mischief: However in my game Shaka is always really friendly to me!
     
  10. FlyinJohnnyL

    FlyinJohnnyL You need more workers....

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    I love religion. I pay attention to who founds a religion and spreads it the best. Then I wait for the "The Kashi Vanwath, Mahabodi, etc. (SP) has been built in a distant land" message. Boom, now I know who my next target will be. I want that shrine!!
     
  11. Pengu

    Pengu Prince

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    True, unless he has vassaled half the contintent....
     
  12. Bellringer

    Bellringer Chieftain

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    Unless you have an Expansive ruler, you need some way, like religion, to keep your cultural borders growing. I usually build an early religious Wonder. In due course a prophet is born, who gives me an advanced technology to found a later religion. I then adopt the Organised Religion civic, spread my state religion in every city, giving 25% faster growth for buildings.
     
  13. Kid R

    Kid R Emperor

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    Religions are a great game mechanic. They add hugely to Civ 4 by providing a credible reason for AIs to love and hate, and they ensure games are always full of blood!

    Spreading your own round the world, as many many have said before, is nowhere near worth it. Founding your own can be worth it in some situations, but definitely not one of the first 3 - let the AIs get them and start fighting while you concentrate on useful early techs. Confucianism or Christianity are the best bets if it turns out you want one a bit later. Captured shrines of course rock too - let the AIs train all the missionaries :)
     
  14. lindsay40k

    lindsay40k Emperor

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    Religion is the tool that activates over half of my wins. Because of the Apostolic Palace.

    I don't go out of my way to build it. It just happens that placing a high priority on conquering Holy Cities means that I often end up walking in and declaring myself Pope/Dalai Lama/Satguru/etc.

    From there, my veteran army tends to vassal a new AI with every new military tech (which, with a profitable Shrine subsidising my research budget, is cutting edge stuff), and by the time I'm marching a dozen CR3 Infantry with Artillery and Cavalry support on the last few AIs it's often quicker to convert one of their cities - settle, convert and gift if they're in Theocracy - and have my loyal vassals press the win button - than to grind down a final big foe with tech parity.
     
  15. bhavv

    bhavv Glorious World Dictator

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    Look, most pro players here only care about whatever beats the game the fastest, not what is more fun or enjoyable to each individual player.

    I can found every religion on Immortal difficulty, and beat the game with just 3 cities + culture win. Sure this isnt a very reliable strategy due to AI DOW's. and it likely isnt the fastest method of beating the game and wont set any forum records, but it absolutely can be done if you get an isolated start with the right civ and enough starting commerce tiles.

    You know why I like doing that? Because I can, because I enjoy it, and I find founding every religion fun, not because forum elitists tell me 'OMG founding early religions is always terrible', because they expect everyone to only play the game however they say.

    There is NEVER anything wrong with founding religions in Civ IV. It may however delay your win time, or make the diplo harder to handle, but that doesnt mean it is impossible to win if you found religions. Plus early religion can easily pay off for your economy with early shrines and organized religion.

    Best thing to do is simply play the game however you like best and not waste time listening to perfectionists on this forum. Yes founding early religion is always fun, powerful when done right, and can win your game. No it doesnt win quite as fast as not founding an early religion unless you are tying some kind of AP cheese, but then you can do that with founding a later religion too.

    Play the game however you enjoy playing it, if you win then theres nothing wrong with how you play. Try out Ramesses for religion cheese - Found a religion, run organised religion, oracle metal casting, build cheap forges, +50% :hammers: in each city, spam temples, monasteries and cathedrals, use obelisks to get faster great prophets and shrines.
     
  16. Robert FIN

    Robert FIN Monty n' Roll

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    Thanks for all comments :) I've learnt much things about religion! So usually founding an early religion is not a good strategy, except you want to bc of fun. I've tried to use religion like pros now. I think that its good to found religion but mostly you should not convert to it. Just use them to make shrine and cash :lol: I'm really angry because I lost noble lvl game..
     
  17. Kadazzle

    Kadazzle Emperor

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    Founding religions on the early difficulties can be fun, but IMM+ the only religions it's possible to consistently found (if you please) is generally Taoism and Confucianism. On all levels however, you should try to get as many religions in your cities as possible, as they will increase your happiness and culture output, and hammers, commerce, and science depending on what civics/wonders you have. The biggest bonus though from religion is diplomacy and the Apostolic Palace. If you share religion you can form good allies who will help you sustain research by techtrade throughout wars with civs from other religions (who will try to convert you to their religion... negative diplo). In addition, the AP is one of the most powerful wonders in the game. Diplo (religious) victories are VERY easy to get (most people simply don't try to go for them; I do agree with this though, most of the time they're not very fun) and AP war decs can bring the entire map into war.. very beneficial on all difficulties.

    In addition, you can do some cool things with religious leaders. To add on to what bhavv said, also build the Angkor Wat. Upgrades priest specialists are nice.
     
  18. damerell

    damerell Slow Worker

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    No; they expect you to have the wit to recognise they are talking about how to maximise the odds of winning the game. Nothing more.

    Automate workers. Why not? It's only the perfectionists who tell you to bother with all that worker micro.
     
  19. Handel

    Handel Prince

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    I never played beyond Monarch because I want to manage an empire, not to win fast and decisively. To win on higher difficulties you need to stick to certain strategies exploiting the AI weaknesses, the knowledge how to play the AI diplomacy rules in your advantage (this includes the religion too) etc etc.
    I don't know if it is possible to win on higher difficulties playing casually.
     
  20. Ramesses-Rules

    Ramesses-Rules King

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    In my opinion, you cannot be a top-rate civ4 player unless you understand how religion works in he game. It affects happiness, economy, production, displomacy -- everything.
     

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