Religionless Faith strategy?

[Polisurgist]

I'm thinking of trying this out in a game one of these days and curious if anyone else has done it. Basically, play a civ that doesn't have any religion-specific U's, though they might have a faith-based one (so Ethiopia is an option but Byzantium is not). Build up your faith options, but rather than found a religion, do what you can to adopt another civ's religion in your cities; hoard faith for buying units, buildings and Great People (where possible), and maybe even work to spread your adopted religion beyond your borders.

Advantages:

• Two civs (at least) will be able to support a World Religion easier than one
• Diplomatic advantages for shared religion with your neighbor (and lack of penalties for spreading your own religion)
• Someone else does the heavy lifting in spreading religion
• Guaranteed tourism boost with at least one civ

Disadvantages:

• Limited control over your follower beliefs
• No founder belief

 

[cpm4001]

I've done this a few times with moderate success. It is nice in the sense that you don't have to worry about combating other civs when spreading your religion, but you are forced to have to get the AI to spread its religion to at least one of your cities (which can be a lot harder than you'd expect, though it's a bit easier now with Trade Routes.)

 

[Polisurgist]

Yeah, it probably would hinge on you being close to a heavy proselytizer.

 

[cpm4001]

You'd think that, but I've had a couple games where I've tried this strategy (having ended up next to the Celts) and only got my cities converted thanks to trade route pressure. There are times where I wish there was a "Please send your Missionaries and Prophets into my country" option!

 

[Galgus]

I'd think that their follower beliefs would either be useless enchancements for tiles you don't have or just generally weak beliefs often, so I don't see the appeal.

 

[mrwho]

I've tried this strategy, and it was very difficult for me to get a majority religion in my lands as there were multiple AIs all trying to convert my cities. It was pretty funny, actually, I had my cities being converted twice every turn at the height of the proselytizing, and for quite a while. It's definitely not a reliable way to get a religion, and also definitely not a reliable way to get any diplomatic or tourism boosts. Sometimes it will work, but I've tried it I think three times now and I've never had a majority religion in my cities. And even if you do manage to get a majority religion, it's unlikely the beliefs will be all too useful for you. You'll also probably lose out on faith in the long run by not buying religious buildings, which easily more than pay for themselves pretty quickly. So for those reasons, I personally wouldn't recommend the strategy.

 

[Polisurgist]

I'd think that their follower beliefs would either be useless enchancements for tiles you don't have or just generally weak beliefs often, so I don't see the appeal.

Depends on the religion; most of those tile-enhancers are pantheon beliefs, which...yeah (though you're most likely to catch a religion from a nearby neighbor and you probably share some geography). As far as follower beliefs go, though, you have a pretty good shot at getting something that lets you buy units or a happiness booster, both of which are a nice plus.

But really, the point is that you save yourself the effort of going all-in on getting a religion really early. If the tradeoff for getting an earlier Library is that you don't get a founder belief or perfect choice of your follower beliefs, that can actually be worth it (not to mention the advantages for following the world religion later on). Not always, but sometimes.

 

[Viregel]

I've tried to do this, except I spawned near Mt. Sinai in my last two games. I managed to get a religion without a shrine.

 

[chazzycat]

this is a good strategy when you want to buy GP with faith but didn't get a good pantheon. you just need ANY religion in a city to faith buy great people. no sense over-investing in religious stuff too early if ethiopia is in the game, for example (they will enhance before you get a chance to found).

 

[Polisurgist]

I've tried to do this, except I spawned near Mt. Sinai in my last two games. I managed to get a religion without a shrine.

You don't need to use your first Prophet to found a religion; you could plant it.

 

[Viregel]

You don't need to use your first Prophet to found a religion; you could plant it.

I could, but I think that I'd be getting more bonuses with Religion.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

this ends up being my strategy at deity difficulty anyway. if i get a religion it is usually 4th or 5th and only because i actively sought it out. unless you want a CV at deity this is a good way to manage other victories quickly.

 

[TyBoy]

You might like trying out an interfaith dialogue-based religion as a compromise. Pick up the cheaper missionaries enhancer and policy and build the Mosque of Djenne and you can convert faith into science at a pretty impressive rate starting in the late medieval. You only need to keep your own religion in your capital. Works well with the Hermitage follower belief and a terrain-specific faith-generating pantheon.

 

[Halcyan2]

I'm thinking of trying this out in a game one of these days and curious if anyone else has done it. Basically, play a civ that doesn't have any religion-specific U's, though they might have a faith-based one (so Ethiopia is an option but Byzantium is not). Build up your faith options, but rather than found a religion, do what you can to adopt another civ's religion in your cities; hoard faith for buying units, buildings and Great People (where possible), and maybe even work to spread your adopted religion beyond your borders.

I employ similar strategies in my "just for fun" empire-building games.

Normally when I choose a religion I just choose one religious building (Cathedrals) but I like to have more. So I actively try to seek out the religions which choose the other religious buildings. I try to settle a city near them and/or use trade routes so that one of my cities has that religion. I then use a combination of Missionaries and Inquisitors to spread each of the religions in turn to each of my cities so that I can get all the religious buildings (plus universities if someone chooses Jesuit Education) before changing them back to my religion!

Similar techniques could be used in your example. Pay attention to the pantheon beliefs people are choosing and intentionally settle a city nearby so that the religion will spread to you. *IF* you can afford to, make this an outpost city and limit it to population 1 (using the "Avoid Growth" feature). Keeping it at population 1 will let you get the religion faster. Once you get the religion and build some missionaries, you can then let it grow.

 

[z284pwr]

Hope you spawn next to the religion that reforms Jesuit Education or To The Glory Of God and you can get some nice uses for your faith

 

[Polisurgist]

You might like trying out an interfaith dialogue-based religion as a compromise. Pick up the cheaper missionaries enhancer and policy and build the Mosque of Djenne and you can convert faith into science at a pretty impressive rate starting in the late medieval. You only need to keep your own religion in your capital. Works well with the Hermitage follower belief and a terrain-specific faith-generating pantheon.

I loooooooove Interfaith Dialogue. Every missionary can knock 2-3 turns off whatever you're researching at the time. Only problem is either that the AI hates you for spreading your religion (even if you don't convert their cities), or they don't have a religion of their own and you eventually run out of easy targets.

 

[Gyra Solune]

I do think that there should be incentives for people to spread religion with Missionaries even if they haven't founded the religion. An ability to use a GP a third time to do a second enhancement for Missionary and Inquisitor bonuses sounds like it could be a good idea. So like, Interfaith Dialogue would be moved to a Missionary belief and it'd work even if you didn't found the religion, so long as you use the Missionary of that religion. And yes, there should be requests between major civs for religion, like, if someone has a religion that has nice follower beliefs, you could go to the diplomacy screen and be all "Please spread your religion into our cities" and they'd be all "we're glad you see the purity of our faith and shall eagerly send a mission your way", and a few turns later there comes a Missionary. Alternatively they could request that of you and you'd get a little positive diplo boost for making due on it.

 

[homegrown]

I haven't really been successful with the passive religion strategy. In order for it to work, you still need to be generating enough faith of your own to buy the religious buildings for more faith and culture so you can eventually afford your JE or great people purchases. The only way I see to make that work is by still building the shrines and temples and plant your first GP instead of founding, which someone else mentioned, if you get a GP, you may as well found your own religion. *shrug*

 

[chazzycat]

I haven't really been successful with the passive religion strategy. In order for it to work, you still need to be generating enough faith of your own to buy the religious buildings for more faith and culture so you can eventually afford your JE or great people purchases. The only way I see to make that work is by still building the shrines and temples and plant your first GP instead of founding, which someone else mentioned, if you get a GP, you may as well found your own religion. *shrug*

I've found it to be a better strategy when there are a few religious CS on the map. That way you can ally them around the industrial, and just use the faith for great people.

 

[Polisurgist]

I haven't really been successful with the passive religion strategy. In order for it to work, you still need to be generating enough faith of your own to buy the religious buildings for more faith and culture so you can eventually afford your JE or great people purchases. The only way I see to make that work is by still building the shrines and temples and plant your first GP instead of founding, which someone else mentioned, if you get a GP, you may as well found your own religion. *shrug*

You'd still be building them, you'd just be building them later, when you can afford a bit more time to get them done.