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Religions and Elements for the Balor

Discussion in 'Fall from Heaven Lore' started by Vicente, Nov 14, 2009.

  1. Vicente

    Vicente Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
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    Greetings fellas! If you don't me mucking up the forum, I have a couple of questions on how do the Balor deal with having both Empyrean and Order in their lands, and how they deal with elemental magic.

    Case in point: Playing a very run-of-the-mill Capria Banor, I have been happy enough to see both The Order and The Empyrean be born in cities belonging to me. I'm currently a hard working Kalimorphian, but did plan to change... just don't know to which one. I've even got both holy shrines!

    My huge Elohim neighbours to the North, who converted me into Kali in the first place, are now Order. And Balor are Junil's followers, are they not? That all points to me adopting Order asap, but what then of the Empyreans? I tolerate them no doubt, but would a Junil-worshiping, Order abiding Banor have any interest in the spread of Empyrean ideals? Both inside and abroad? Would a reasonably friendly/pacified international situation point to less Law-Like Balor radicalism and more Lugus-Like wisedom?

    Secondly, I have a nice Mana Node in my territory, which I plan on transforming into something. My first idea was to make it a Fire Mana, because... well you know, fire is cool. But Bhall's dumped civ going for Fire? Nah, it doesn't make sense. Then I thought Water, since it's sort of the oposite, both elementaly and spiritualy, but that doesn't sound well either - Banor ain't the Serene type, and they have no History of seafaring (certainly not in my game). Sun would fit reasonably well, but I already have Sun Mana from Deis Dei. Earth I already have aswell, and Air... would likely offend the Kalimorphians, still a majority after all.

    ...or am I completly wrong on all this? :D

    Cheers!
     
  2. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    A Balor is a type of Demon, not a civ. Balors are the weakest True Demons (demons who were never mortal), but are still quite strong. In the game they are the Infernal Berserker UU and the AV High Priest Summon.


    From the context, I assume you mean the Bannor. I'll also assume Kalimorphian and Kali refer to followers of the Runes of Kilmorph.


    In the lore the Bannor tolerate the worship of Lugus and Sirona in their lands, and even subsidize their temples in the capital city. This official sanction however comes with strings attached. Followers of these other good gods must help in their Crusades (mostly providing healers I'd guess), and cannot speak out against the government. The most devout followers of Lugus and especially Sirona probably have problems with this censorship, and are forced to operate only underground. (Well, I cannot really see the followers of the god of openness operating underground, so they would likely just move away or submit. Junil gets along much better with Lugus than Sirona anyway.)


    The Bannor tolerate the worship of neutral gods like Kilmoph, but they are less trusting of them. They would never subsidize RoK the way they would the Empyrean.



    The followers of Junil and Lugus often disagree, but they work well together. Many of the greatest Bannor victories were achieved by followers of Junil carrying out plans devised by the followers of Lugus. The Empyrean is great at discovering traps that the Bannor would otherwise fall for. The Empyrean is also a younger faith whose priests remain more zealous and are better able to call for miracles. (In the lore the Bannor Order clergy eventually fell away from the true faith, lost the ability to perform miracles, and began persecuting those still loyal enough to Junil to have their prayers answered. The Empyrean clergy remained loyal to Lugus and kept their miracle working ability. I suspect that they helped reestablish a true Order priesthood after the wickedness of the Order high priests was revealed during Auric's siege.)


    Although Bhall turned evil, I tend to think that the Bannor still have much fire in their souls. Fire is passion, especially the kind of passion that fuels crusades, inquisitions, and witch hunts. Their passion may sometimes lead them astray and much be checked by strict codes of law, but it is still there.

    If you are going to fight the Infernal or undead units Life mana is a must. It will also let you build Aquae Sucellus and will bring you very close to building the Tower of Divination as you have Law and Spirit from you palace and Sun from Dies Diei. You would then only need Mind mana. (Mind is an evil sphere but it is the evil sphere that best fits the fallen Bannor priesthood.)

    You know, having duplicate mana can be a good thing, as it leads to free promotions, increases the strength of units with affinity, and for some mana has passive benefits. Extra law mana will reduce the maintenance costs of your cities. Both Aureales (the Sun II summon) and Chalid (the Empyean hero) have 2 Sun affinity, making Sun the best mana for affinity purposes.
     
  3. Vicente

    Vicente Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
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    Gah! Indeed I meant Kil and Bannor. That's what I gain for writing on the fly.

    Thanks for your reply.

    So you say Bannor's Priests of Junil have lost the God's good trust? How did that come to be? They were too arbitrary in their crusades? My current game only had 3 wars, 2 offensive and one on the defence, the including 3 cities razed...

    This might just be the case in my game too then. Did I turn evil? Maybe I should embrace the Empyrean and hope Lugus will forgive me? :blush:

    Currently the worst thing around is a OO Clan, so I don't expect a major war against Demons or Undead... But I guess Life does make more sense than other elements. Then again, we're 50/50 on religious influence so two Sun would pair well with two Law. Now I only need to decide which religion to pick. :crazyeye:
     
  4. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    They need not be corrupt in every game, but in the lore the high priests of Junil started ignoring Sabathiel and making up their own orders to issue in his name, causing him to abandon him. Sabathiel never came into Erebus per se, but stayed in a little pocket dimension between Erebus and Junil's heaven as he recovered from the injuries incurred while fighting his way out of hell with the Bannor. This dimension could be accessed through the holy of holies in the Halls of Sabathiel (the main temple of the Order in the heart of the Bannor capital), but perhaps required enough faith to access. It is not clear if the generation of priests present at Auric's razing of the capital had ever seen Sabathiel.

    In Kael's D&D campaigns on which FfH was based, Valin Phanuel was perhaps the last person still loyal enough to Junil to have his prayers actually answered. The church hierarchy wanted him and all other true followers of Junil dead, but not before they could disgrace them so as not to make them martyrs. While controlled by evil, the Bannor always maintained the appearance of being good and most of the laity remained righteous enough.

    If I recall correctly the Bazaar of Mammon 'pedia entry indicates that the Bannor needed more funds to finance their crusades and so allowed the Stewards of Inequity to set up shop in their capital. Their loans enabled many martial successes and allowed them to build the most impressive empire in Erebus, but eventually led to ruin. It could be that the high priests of the Bannor were indebted to the Stewards and so sold out all their principles in order to help pay off their loans.

    The Stewards are a cult loyal to Mammon, although only the highest ranking know that they serve him. Mammon prefers his followers to think they serve only their own interests, so the Stewards are not overtly religious. They are a secret society (often compared to the Masons or Illuminati) made up mostly merchants, bankers, and tax collectors, devoted to keeping the rich rich and the poor poor. (In our world, they would dominate Wallstreet and the Federal Reserve.) As they make sure that wealth does not go to those who work for it, they are especially hated by Kilmorph. Tali may be Kilmorph's direct opposite, but Mammon is her greatest enemy. The dwarves most fear Mammon's hell, and consider any dwarf who follows Mammon to be less dwarf than any human, orc, or elf. The Stewards are closely allied to the Council of Esus, but they are less violent and don't like getting their hands dirty. They are more likely to blackmail than to murder, and most of those that die because of them die from starvation (as they have nothing left with which to buy food) rather than violence. They may hire hitmen on occasion, but are careful enough not to leave a trail that could lead back to them. Most members of the Stewards are respectable citizens who may never break a law in their lives (mostly because they are friends with those who write the laws and include loopholes to make their highly unethical practices be technically legal).
     
  5. Vicente

    Vicente Chieftain

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    Another question on this: is The Order a proselytist religion? Does the Law it follow extend to the international situation?
     
  6. Autolycus

    Autolycus Chieftain

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    The Order is certainly a proselytic religion, in my opinion. Its followers hold that following the orders from heaven is the best way to make sure you don't fall into the service of one of the evil gods.
     

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