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Religious Game - Seriously Flawed

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by SCBrain, Nov 2, 2016.

  1. SCBrain

    SCBrain Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2007
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    Forgive me if this has been discussed and settled, but the religious aspect of the game seems badly designed. There appears to be no penalty for setting religious units on someone's land and just leaving them there, short of starting a war, which is heavily penalized. I couldn't improve an oil resource because of a Brazilian apostle occupying the tile. There was a little carpet of religious units all over my land and I couldn't do anything about it. Other times I couldn't position my army for a war because of a bunch of missionaries near the city. This cannot be what the designers had in mind.

    In general, the steady stream of missionaries is just annoying, not fun. In addition, I don't see the advantage to having religious control over one's empire, aside from obsessive/compulsive concerns.

    P.S. I have so much money I don't know what to do with it. Previous games put you in financial straits.
     
  2. Lord Yanaek

    Lord Yanaek Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2003
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    Well, apart from winning a Religious Victory you have better relations with someone who shares your religion (if he didn't found himself), more tourism and some founder beliefs give you yield based on how many followers your religion has globally so plenty of reasons to convert civilizations that didn't found a religion.

    Converting by force someone who has founded their own religion is mostly for Religious Victory or to stop him from sending his own Apostles to you.

    Did you found your own religion in this game? If you have, you can fight their religious units with your own. If not, you could use religious units from one religion that spread to you. If your religion is already the one from Brazil, he should hopefully move to some new targets shortly.

    But i agree religious units should occupy their own layer rather than share the civilian layer with workers.
     
  3. AmtrakQuebec

    AmtrakQuebec King

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    You know that place by the other place...
    I like using my apostles to protect future good city sites so that the AI can't get them...

    in your face AI !!!!
     
    mnf likes this.
  4. TonkaTruck

    TonkaTruck Chieftain

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    Oct 30, 2016
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    As far as i'm concerned making them occupy the same "level" of tile as very different kinds of units is a very big oversight.

    Just make them work like trading carts. Give them their own level and stop them from taking up the spot of my builder, my military units but keep the collision between other religious units of course.
    The tendency of these guys to loiter and mass up makes it even worse, and it seriously breaks the immersion when i have to go to war just to be able to take back my own territory from some guys in sandals and rags.

    That or make taking a Great Prophet in immortal+ more viable so that i can actually play the religious game and kill them with apostles as was intended.
     
    AmtrakQuebec and mnf like this.
  5. Atwork

    Atwork Immortal

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    Santa Cruz, CA.
    Lol, I use apostles as blockers too! Definitely a flaw. Must be fixed. Should be a priority.
     
  6. SCBrain

    SCBrain Chieftain

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    Did you found your own religion in this game? If you have, you can fight their religious units with your own. If not, you could use religious units from one religion that spread to you. If your religion is already the one from Brazil, he should hopefully move to some new targets shortly.


    I did found Taoism. For about 500 years, from 1000 to 1500, the Japanese sent a constant stream of missionaries I had to eliminate. It wasn't hard - only tedious. I had more faith points than I knew what to do with, so I just had to go into my capital and buy two inquisitors or apostles every turn. After a while, the Japanese relented (but didn't completely stop) and then the Brazilians started in. It's just a tiresome mechanic - not fun.

    Indeed, after finishing my first game, that's my overall impression: Civ 6 is tiresome.
     
  7. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    The attrition mechanic worked alright in 5 though.

    You know, sometimes I wonder if they ever bothered to flip through the patch notes of all things they did to improve 5. I mean, they could have just implemented all from the get go.

    Instead, it's gonna be likely at least half a year until the game is properly playable
     
  8. Big J Money

    Big J Money Emperor

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    Agree completely that they should be on their own layer.

    Look, in general they've got to redesign the layers system. I know they can do it, and I don't know why it uses the Civ V model. I like 1UPT, that's fine. But please design a UI where you aren't afraid to stack units in situations like these and make it nice and tight.
     
  9. CaiusDrewart

    CaiusDrewart King

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    I feel like the cool new lens feature should help with this. Have religious units be able to share tiles with one military and/or one civilian unit, regardless of nationality. But when you select the religious lens, the other units disappear and you see only the religious units. That should work great and minimize the clutter problems of stacking.
     
    TonkaTruck likes this.
  10. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    This is why they need to
    1. have religious and civilian units on a different layer
    2. allow 2 units of different civs at peace and different layers to share a tile
     
  11. SCBrain

    SCBrain Chieftain

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    Everyone here seems to agree that the religious units shouldn't be able to block military units - that they should be on their own layer. But I would like to see another change: making religious units rarer. There are just so many, and it doesn't really make any sense. Would holy cities like Rome or Mecca or Jerusalem or Delhi or Moscow convert to another faith because of missionary activity? Should ordinary missionaries be able to do so in the game? I would suggest that missionaries should be able to convert cities without a religion, but not cities with an established religion and religious infrastructure. If converting a city with a well-developed religious infrastructure is possible at all, a rarer unit should be required. The religious game might be more interesting if some units were cheap but limited in ability, while others with impressive abilities (like being able to convert a city that has had just one religion for 4000 years) would be very rare (like great people) or very expensive or both.

    HIstorically speaking, cities with established religions haven't converted without the point of a sword being involved.
     
    TonkaTruck likes this.
  12. dwarfling

    dwarfling Chieftain

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    One thing that annoys me is that the combat bonuses for difficulty apply to the religious units, so Deity apostles require overwhelming resourses to be spent just to kill one dude. And there're carpets of them. And it's not like you can use priestly archers against them.
     
    skyclad likes this.

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