Religious Shrines

[Brad55]

Does anyone know if the +1 gold effect from a religious shrine is contributed from your empire or the city the shrine is built in? I'm just wondering if commerce modifiers like banks, grocers and markets have any influence on the amount of gold you receive per turn from the shrine...

 

[Columbkille]

The gold goes to the commerce of your city I believe. So banks and markets would expand the income.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Well actually the Gold of the shrine goes to the Gold of your city Not the Commerce

(Commerce gets turned to gold, never the other way around.... so there is no way the Shrine will be able to help Science/benefit from Bureaucracy, but it will get the bonus of Markets, Wall Street, etc.)

 

[vilemerchant]

Yes you should always turn your holy city into a super gold city with marketplace, grocer, bank, wall street etc.

 

[Older than Dirt]

I don't know how or why it happens, but when I have a large, developed city with a shrine and a missionary plants the religion I sometimes get more than 1 more gold added to my income.

 

[UncleJJ]

I don't know how or why it happens, but when I have a large, developed city with a shrine and a missionary plants the religion I sometimes get more than 1 more gold added to my income.

That could be because you pay upkeep on the missionary (if you already have a lot of units), so you are getting 1 gold added at the shrine (times your building gold boosts upto +200% ) and you are saving 1 gold upkeep costs. Also I have noticed that it sometimes takes a few screen refreshes for the true effect on your income to work through the system when a missionary adds a new city to your Holy Shrine. Visit the shrine city and click on the gold income to display your new income correctly.

 

[Brad55]

I'm having trouble understanding the difference between commerce and gold. If I have a cottage that produces 4 gpt then how can it use the effects of modifiers like banks and markets (or does it produce 4 commerce per turn which is then converted to 4 gold)? Under Bureaucracy it says +50% commerce, which is the same as the definition of a bank, yet you're saying the bank can be used to modify the gold from the shrine and Bureaucracy can't?

And what's the difference between the symbols on the map? What's the difference between the big gold coin, the money bag and the little stack of gold (like the one displayed in the civilopedia definition for Bureacracy)? Any help would be appreciated...

 

[MrCynical]

And what's the difference between the symbols on the map? What's the difference between the big gold coin, the money bag and the little stack of gold (like the one displayed in the civilopedia definition for Bureacracy)? Any help would be appreciated...

The big gold coin represents commerce. Think of it like a raw material that's generated by various terrain improvements (especially cottages), trade routes and the palace. Commerce is then converted into some combination of gold (represented by the stack of coins), science and culture, depending how your culture and science sliders are set. The science rate is the percentage of commerce converted into science, the culture rate is the percentage used for happiness and culture boosting, and any remainder is converted into gold.

For example, if your city is generating 10 commerce per turn, and your science rate is at 80% and culture rate at 0%, then the 10 commerce will be converted into 8 science and 2 gold. These may then subsequently have various modifiers applied, for example a library would give +25% science for a total output of 10 science here.

Banks and markets modify gold output, not commerce output. In fact there are very few things which affect commerce output; the palace generates 8 commerce per turn and Bureaucracy gives a 50% boost to the palace's commerce output (in which case there's an error in the civlopedia if it shows a stack of gold coins; since that would be gold. I sometimes get the impression that some of the people who wrote the documentation didn't understand the difference between commerce and gold either).

Since markets and banks only affect the gold output of a city, then if your science rate is at or near 100% (as is quite common) and none of your commerce is converted to gold, they normally won't do anything. There are however a couple of things that produce gold directly, the most important of which is shrines (specialists are the other major one). They will still be boosted regardless of your science rate, so the shrine city is a good place for a bank. Bureaucracy would only increase the commerce output of the capital, and wouldn't have any effect on any shrine present.

 

[scottin]

I'm having trouble understanding the difference between commerce and gold. If I have a cottage that produces 4 gpt then how can it use the effects of modifiers like banks and markets (or does it produce 4 commerce per turn which is then converted to 4 gold)? Under Bureaucracy it says +50% commerce, which is the same as the definition of a bank, yet you're saying the bank can be used to modify the gold from the shrine and Bureaucracy can't?

And what's the difference between the symbols on the map? What's the difference between the big gold coin, the money bag and the little stack of gold (like the one displayed in the civilopedia definition for Bureacracy)? Any help would be appreciated...

Ok, here is where you are making your mistake.
Cottages generate Commerce. Trade routes generate Commerce. Shrines generate Gold. Not to be confused w/ the gold resource (which, if in your city radius and worked, generate Commerce )
A single coin represents 1 Commerce.
A money bag represents 5 Commerce.
A stack of coins represent Gold.

Commerce is change into Beakers , Gold , or Culture , depending on the sliders in the upper left corner. For example. Say your sliders are set on 50% science, 20% culture, and that you have 10 commerce from your worked tiles and trade routes. You would then be getting 5 beakers, 3 gold, and 2 culture.

This is BEFORE and modifiers (Banks, markets, etc for Gold; Library, Univ, etc for Beakers, Various wonders for Culture) Shrines generate Gold (not Commerce). The Gold from this will be modified by the banks, markets, etc. that modify your Gold from Commerce. In other words, the Gold from the Shrine is added to the Gold from Commerce BEFORE the modification by these buildings.

Harbors and the Bureaucracy civic are about the onle things that affect Commerce. Harbors increase the commerce from trade routes. Bureaucracy adds 50% commerce to your capital (only).

Enjoy,
sgc

EDIT: too late.

 

[Brad55]

I checked the civilopedia again and it does in fact display the single gold coin for +50% commerce. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[BeefontheBone]

On a related note, the wonder which generates gold from religious buildings (Spiral Minaret?) applies its bonus to the individual buildings, so the city building it will not gain any extra gold (unless it has buildings of your state religion, of course), the extra is generated in the cities with the religious buildings. Basically, there's no particular benefit to building the Minaret in your high-gold Wall Street city.