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[NFP] Religious Victory Elimination Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Francel, Jun 25, 2020.

  1. Francel

    Francel Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2018
    Messages:
    122
    This thread is moderator approved.

    In this iteration of the Elimination Threads, we are tackling Religious Victory. With the latest tweaks to religion going live today, this is a ripe moment for scrutiny. As usual, you are tasked with ranking each civilization in terms of its ability to achieve this win condition.


    Note: Kongo/Mvemba is not included in the list of civilizations below for obvious reasons.


    Previous Gathering Storm Elimination Threads

    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/domination-victory-elimination-thread.658838/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...he-hands-of-the-ai-elimination-thread.656981/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/music-theme-elimination-thread.651945/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/diplomatic-victory-elimination-thread.650579/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civ-unique-ability-elimination-thread.648643/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/gathering-storm-leader-ability-elimination-thread.649233/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/unique-unit-elimination-thread.647892/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/science-victory-gs-elimination-thread.654506/

    Before GS Elimination Threads
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civilization-ability-elimination-thread.639612/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/leader-ability-elimination-thread.637762/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/unique-unit-elimination-thread.631713/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/unique-infrastructure-elimination-thread.638688/

    Rules:
    - Roughly every 24 hours you may vote. You add one point to one leader and take away three points from another.
    - Posts with missing upvote or downvote are skipped. Only voting posts are allowed in this thread.
    - You must write a reason for each upvote and downvote.
    - Voting many times for the same thing is allowed, though it is really recommended to spread your votes among many civs if possible otherwise things could get kind of annoying.
    - Delete the previous voters comments, and indicate your comments in some way (bold, italicize, color, something that will draw attention)
    - We only vote basing on CURRENT power of unique features based on MOST RECENT PATCH for Gathering Storm.

    Feel free to rationalize your selections however you wish. For your rationale, you should include any aspect of the civilization/leader including unique infrastructure, units, or abilities.

    Starting scores
    Alexander/Macedon [15]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France [15]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [15]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
    Jadwiga/Poland [15]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [15]
    John Curtain/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [15]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Montezuma/Azte [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [15]
    Pedro/Brazil. [15]
    Pericles/Greece [15]
    Peter/Russia [15]
    Philip/Spain [15]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [15]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [15]
    Saladin/Arabia [15]
    Seondeok/Korea [15]
    Shaka/Zulu [15]
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [15]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [15]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [15]
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]
     
    Hawke9 and DWilson like this.
  2. Francel

    Francel Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2018
    Messages:
    122
    I will make a note below of each civ/leader combo as it is eliminated from the contest.

    Not ranked: Kongo/Mvemba a Nzinga

    47. Shaka/Zulu
    46. Robert the Bruce/Scotland
    45. Whilhelmina/Netherlands
    44. Alexander/Macedonia
    43. Suleiman/Ottomans
    42. Poundmaker/Cree
    41. Seondeok/Korea
    40. Victoria/England
    39. Eleanor/England
    38. Kristina/Sweden
    37. Gilgamesh/Sumeria
    36. Eleanor/France
    35. Teddy Roosevelt/America
    34. Dido/Phoenicia
    33. Lady Six Sky/Maya
    32. Trajan/Rome
    31. Frederick/Germany
    30. Catherine/France
    29. Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia
    28. Qin Shi Huang/China
    27. Cyrus/Persia
    26. Tomyris/Scythia
    25. Lautaro/Mapuche
    24. Philip/Spain
    23. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary
    22. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada
    21. John Curtain/Australia
    20. Montezuma/Aztecs
    19. Harald Hardrada/Norway
    18. Pericles/Greece
    17. Amanitore/Nubia
    16. Cleopatra/Egypt
    15. Jayavarman/Khmer
    14. Pachacuti/Inca

    (Please let me know privately if you catch a mistake).
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020 at 7:35 AM
    Hawke9 likes this.
  3. Francel

    Francel Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2018
    Messages:
    122
    Alexander/Macedon [15]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France [15]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [15]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
    Jadwiga/Poland [15]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [15]
    John Curtain/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [15]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Montezuma/Azte [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [15]
    Pedro/Brazil. [15]
    Pericles/Greece [15]
    Peter/Russia [15]
    Philip/Spain [15]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [15]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [15]
    Saladin/Arabia [16] (15+1) - A prerequisite for winning a religious victory is obviously founding a religion. With Saladin, you will never miss out on the opportunity to do so. Furthermore, tier three buildings carry a negligible cost, actually reduced to 0 with theocracy.
    Seondeok/Korea [15]
    Shaka/Zulu [12] (15-3) - Like many on the list, the Zulu have no obvious advantage here. They have nothing to help with getting early holy sites, or extra faith, or great people, or even civics that would help reach theocracy more quickly. Seems like a straightforward early target for elimination.
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [15]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [15]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [15]
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]
     
  4. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    2,568
    Location:
    Łódź, PL
    Alexander/Macedon [15]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France [15]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [15]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
    Jadwiga/Poland [15]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [15]
    John Curtain/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [15]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Montezuma/Azte [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [15]
    Pedro/Brazil. [15]
    Pericles/Greece [15]
    Peter/Russia [15]
    Philip/Spain [15]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [15]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [15]
    Saladin/Arabia [16]
    Seondeok/Korea [15]
    Shaka/Zulu [12] ---> Killing other civs, especially religion founders is the way to secure religious victory. Every domination civ is good at RV as well
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [15]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [16] 15+1 if healing upon kill and bonus vs wounded still works with apostles, this is a monster religious civ. +warmonger. Pretty sure contender for 1st place
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [12] 15 -3 Low production start and no bonus faith. Starting bias when you don't want to chop forest to speed up holy site project, so worse than others to get a prophet
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2020
  5. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Civ IV Emperor EQM Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2012
    Messages:
    5,082
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Gibraltar
    Alexander/Macedon [12] 15 - 3 Nothing much here to help a religious victory
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France [15]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [15]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
    Jadwiga/Poland [15]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [15]
    John Curtin/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [15]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [15]
    Pedro/Brazil. [15]
    Pericles/Greece [15]
    Peter/Russia [15]
    Philip/Spain [15]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [15]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [15]
    Saladin/Arabia [16]
    Seondeok/Korea [15]
    Shaka/Zulu [12]
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [15]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [16]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [13] 12 +1 He's no great shakes in the religion game but Dance of the Aurora synergises well with his start bias so he doesn't deserve to go early
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]
     
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  6. Kmart_Elvis

    Kmart_Elvis Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2018
    Messages:
    510
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    California
    Alexander/Macedon [12]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France [15]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [15]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
    Jadwiga/Poland [15]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [15]
    John Curtin/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [15]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [15]
    Pedro/Brazil. [15]
    Pericles/Greece [15]
    Peter/Russia [16] (15+1) Faith from tundra, usually first to pantheon, half-priced holy sites, extra Great Prophet points, synergizes so well with Dance of the Aurora. My pick for the best religious civ in the game (I may or may not be biased)
    Philip/Spain [15]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [15]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [12] (15-3) Nothing to help with RV. Too focused on science and production.
    Saladin/Arabia [16]
    Seondeok/Korea [15]
    Shaka/Zulu [12]
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [15]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [16]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [13]
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]
     
  7. bengalryan9

    bengalryan9 Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    Messages:
    588
    Gender:
    Male
    Alexander/Macedon [12]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France [15]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [15]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
    Jadwiga/Poland [15]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [15]
    John Curtin/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [15]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [15]
    Pedro/Brazil. [15]
    Pericles/Greece [15]
    Peter/Russia [16]
    Philip/Spain [15]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [15]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [12]
    Saladin/Arabia [16]
    Seondeok/Korea [15]
    Shaka/Zulu [9] (12-3) Most domination based civs at least get some type of benefit for their religious units as well - not Shaka!
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [15]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [16]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [14] (13+1) Greatly benefits from Dance of the Aurora and can pretty easily rush holy sites and prayers since he doesn't have to worry about early war declarations like everyone else does. WAY too early to be voting Canada down at this stage, but this forum just can't resist, can they?
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]
     
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  8. monikernemo

    monikernemo Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 9, 2020
    Messages:
    53
    Gender:
    Male
    Alexander/Macedon [12]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France [15]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [15]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
    Jadwiga/Poland [15]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [15]
    John Curtin/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [12] (15-3)weak faith generation due to need to settle close to capital. But anyway, mountainous regions not bode well for Maya.
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [15]
    Pedro/Brazil. [15]
    Pericles/Greece [15]
    Peter/Russia [17] (16+1) there is nothing more to say here really
    Philip/Spain [15]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [15]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [12]
    Saladin/Arabia [16]
    Seondeok/Korea [15]
    Shaka/Zulu [9]
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [15]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [16]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [14]
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]
     
    DWilson likes this.
  9. kryat

    kryat King

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2017
    Messages:
    652
    Gender:
    Male
    Alexander/Macedon [12]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France [15]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [15]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
    Jadwiga/Poland [15]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [15]
    John Curtin/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [13] (12+1) LSS has a hidden advantage in religion. Since she has different adjacency rules for campuses and holy sites, she doesn’t have to choose between them for those rare +3 or better mountain sites. Place your campuses near plantations and your holy sites in the mountains. Else, she also has better than average core cities, so she gets a slight boost to founding a religion.
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [15]
    Pedro/Brazil [15]
    Pericles/Greece [15]
    Peter/Russia [17]
    Philip/Spain [15]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [15]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [9] (12-3) Great at science, but not good for faith or culture.
    Saladin/Arabia [16]
    Seondeok/Korea [15]
    Shaka/Zulu [9]
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [15]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [16]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [14]
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]
     
  10. Republic of San Montuoso

    Republic of San Montuoso Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2017
    Messages:
    432
    Gender:
    Male
    Alexander/Macedon [12]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France [15]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [15]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
    Jadwiga/Poland [15]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [15]
    John Curtin/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [13]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [16] (15+1) If starting in a desert, you have +6 faith per turn, practically assuring you the first pantheon (desert folklore of course). Then, with the suguba, decrease the cost in faith in your cities: buying more missionaries and apostles. The best contender with Peter IMO.
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [15]
    Pedro/Brazil. [15]
    Pericles/Greece [15]
    Peter/Russia [17]
    Philip/Spain [15]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [15]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [9]
    Saladin/Arabia [16]
    Seondeok/Korea [15]
    Shaka/Zulu [9]
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [15]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [16]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [14]
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [12] (15-3) No military bonuses to take away your religious opponents, no religious bonuses to found a religion early, no faith bonuses... Overall a well-rounded civilization except for religion. Even the pantheons suited for her (River Goddess, God of the Sea) does not even give faith.
     
  11. BenitoChavez

    BenitoChavez Whispering Walrus

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2013
    Messages:
    1,973
    Location:
    Alpha Quadrant
    Alexander/Macedon [12]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France [15]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [15]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [16] = 15 + 1. Half priced holy sites means easy access to a religion. High adjacency bonuses to districts means high faith for producing religious units, high culture for early access to key wonders that boost your religion, and high production to build those wonders.
    Jadwiga/Poland [15]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [15]
    John Curtin/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [13]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [16]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [15]
    Pedro/Brazil [15]
    Pericles/Greece [15]
    Peter/Russia [17]
    Philip/Spain [15]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [15]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [9]
    Saladin/Arabia [16]
    Seondeok/Korea [15]
    Shaka/Zulu [9]
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [12] = 15 - 3. No faith or religious boosts.
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [16]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [14]
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [12]
     
  12. Weraptor

    Weraptor King

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2017
    Messages:
    619
    Gender:
    Male
    Alexander/Macedon [12]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France [15]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [12] (15-3) Not much room for Holy Sites, especially prioritizing them when you are building Campuses, RNDs, Industrial Zones and Theater Squares left and right.
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [16]
    Jadwiga/Poland [16] (15+1) A bit more obscure civ, Poland can get a quick religion and their faith economy is not bad.
    Jayavarman/Khmer [15]
    John Curtin/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [13]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [16]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [15]
    Pedro/Brazil. [15]
    Pericles/Greece [15]
    Peter/Russia [17]
    Philip/Spain [15]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [15]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [9]
    Saladin/Arabia [16]
    Seondeok/Korea [15]
    Shaka/Zulu [9]
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [12]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [15]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [16]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [14]
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [12]
     
  13. Leucarum

    Leucarum King

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2018
    Messages:
    665
    Gender:
    Male
    Alexander/Macedon [12]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France [15]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [12]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [16]
    Jadwiga/Poland [16]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [15]
    John Curtin/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [13]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [16]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [15]
    Pedro/Brazil. [15]
    Pericles/Greece [15]
    Peter/Russia [17]
    Philip/Spain [15]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [15]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [9]
    Saladin/Arabia [16]
    Seondeok/Korea [12] (15-3) Holy sites are not the district to prioritize as Korea...
    Shaka/Zulu [9]
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [12]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [15]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [16]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [15] (14+1) Given how well they can use dance of the aurora they should probably finish mid-tier.
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [12]
     
  14. The Highwayman

    The Highwayman Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2016
    Messages:
    475
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Alexander/Macedon [12]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France [15]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [12]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [16]
    Jadwiga/Poland [16]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [15]
    John Curtin/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [13]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [16]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [15]
    Pedro/Brazil. [15]
    Pericles/Greece [15]
    Peter/Russia [18] [17+1] Half cost holy site + double the GP points lowers cost of getting a religion substantially, which is important on higher difficulties. Extra faith from tundra combined with early pantheon is just godly for religion.
    Philip/Spain [15]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [15]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [9]
    Saladin/Arabia [16]
    Seondeok/Korea [12]
    Shaka/Zulu [6] [9-3] Nothing here suggests any advantage to religious victory.
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [12]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [15]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [16]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [15]
     
  15. CrabHelmet

    CrabHelmet King

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2017
    Messages:
    636
    I found this difficult because most Civs are equally good at Religious Victory, which is to say, if you want to pursue Religious Victory, they're all basically the same with no particular benefits in favour or against. It's not like Domination where every Civ has UUs at least that can be ranked. Most Civs have no bonus or malus to Religion at all. You can say e.g. "Alexander has much better things to do than go for Religious Victory", but Alexander's not any worse at it than anyone else, he just has lots of better options than other Civs. I've left some comments on those downvoted by others to explain why I've left them for the time being.

    Alexander/Macedon [12] THe ability to conquer Inspirations means you can war as Alexander and still get progress towards getting Theology very early. Not a huge help by any means, but it's non-negligible.
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France [15]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [12] - I think Eleanor can be incentivised to go Religious because of the additional Wrong Religion Loyalty penalty. I agree that she has a lot going on and is very contextual, but I have pursued Religious Victory as Eleanor for this reason, so she's not my priority.
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria [15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [16]
    Jadwiga/Poland [16]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [15]
    John Curtin/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [13] - Definitely disagree with this one, the early extra yields mean a lot of extra Faith.
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [16]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [15]
    Pedro/Brazil [15]
    Pericles/Greece [15]
    Peter/Russia [19] (18+1) Uncontestably the best, in my view.
    Philip/Spain [15]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [15]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [9] - It's quite easy to get happy cities early on with Amenity trades, which means you get a little bit extra Production for setting up quicker Holy Sites in new cities. Extremely marginal, but enough not to be last.
    Saladin/Arabia [16]
    Seondeok/Korea [12] Science gets you to key Religious techs faster.
    Shaka/Zulu [3] (6-3) I just can't see how anything in their set in any way contributes to a Religious Victory whatsoever. There's just nothing here that can have even a tangential bonus.
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15] This would have been my second choice after Shaka. Again, just nothing whatsoever to add to Religious Victory here. Really quite arbitrary which one goes first. Simon eventually gets Production boosts which can help get Holy Sites faster, I guess.

    Suleiman/Ottomans [12]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [16]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15] Victoria is in that group with Simon and Robert where they'd be the worst if it weren't for Shaka who doesn't even get trivial Production bonuses or anything.
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [15] Hard disagree. The Tundra bonus combined with Dance of the Aurora means Wilfrid often has reliable high Faith very early.
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [12] The slight culture advantage helps hit Theology faster than some of the other options here, not convinced she's in the bottom five, although small differences really.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2020
  16. bengalryan9

    bengalryan9 Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    Messages:
    588
    Gender:
    Male
    Someone downvoted Suleiman earlier, but the scores show Simon as being downvoted instead. Someone needs to fix - Simon should be 15, and Suleiman should be 12.
     
  17. CrabHelmet

    CrabHelmet King

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2017
    Messages:
    636
    Edited my post to correct this.
     
    bengalryan9 likes this.
  18. Drivingrevilo

    Drivingrevilo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2020
    Messages:
    94
    Gender:
    Male
    Alexander/Macedon [12]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France [15]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [12]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria [15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [16]
    Jadwiga/Poland [16]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [15]
    John Curtin/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [13]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [16]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [15]
    Pedro/Brazil [15]
    Pericles/Greece [15]
    Peter/Russia [20] (19+1) NGL, I think this is going to be a very uninspiring elimination thread. As @CrabHelmet says, the majority of Civs are just ‘competent’ at religion: we could lump them all together collectively, get rid of them now, and avoid the slog. Then there’s a handful of ‘good’ ones (e.g. Khmer, Gandhi, Arabia, Japan), and then there’s Russia, who is quite obviously the best by a country mile.
    Philip/Spain [15]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [12] (15-3) Not only do they get no inherent bonuses to religion. More importantly, unless we’re talking Stonehenge (very risky / borderline impossible on Deity), China has far more important things to be spending hammers on in the early game - I.e. wonders and builders.
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [9]
    Saladin/Arabia [16]
    Seondeok/Korea [12]
    Shaka/Zulu [3]
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [12]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [16]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [15]
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [12]
     
  19. Chefofrats

    Chefofrats Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2018
    Messages:
    328
    Location:
    The Cardboard Country
    Alexander/Macedon [12]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France [15]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [12]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria [15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [16]
    Jadwiga/Poland [16]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [15]
    John Curtin/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [13]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [16]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [15]
    Pedro/Brazil [15]
    Pericles/Greece [15]
    Peter/Russia [21] (20+1) - yeah, this is a no-brainer. High faith generation from tundra, awsome and cheap holy site replacement. One thing against Russia may be the fact that they are actually great at cultural victory, which is much less tedious than religious victory, so while they can easily win by religion, the player may not want to take advantage of it.
    Philip/Spain [15]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [12]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [9]
    Saladin/Arabia [16]
    Seondeok/Korea [12]
    Shaka/Zulu [3]
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [12]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [16]
    Trajan/Rome [12] (15-3) - an awsome, versatile civ, but with nothing special in the religious department.
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [15]
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [12]
     
  20. kryat

    kryat King

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2017
    Messages:
    652
    Gender:
    Male
    Voting a bit early today, if you’ll forgive me. I think @CrabHelmet is mostly onto something in saying some have not-so-obvious advantages, but I disagree with saying everyone’s basically equal. The way I see it, there’s a few distinct ways one could be good at getting a RV, in roughly this order:

    1) Extra faith generations or more powerful conversions. The faith may come explicitly from buildings or implicitly from natural biases, pantheons, raiding, or any other way you can imagine. The more powerful conversions may be from subtle improvements to apostles/missionaries/inquisitors, or other ways you can exert pressure.
    2) Bonus to securing a religion
    3) Great culture yields to get to Theology, Theocracy, and Governor titles faster
    4) Great food/production/growth yields, which generally make your empire better

    Alexander/Macedon [12]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France [15]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [12]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria [15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [16]
    Jadwiga/Poland [16]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [15]
    John Curtin/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [13]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [16]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [15]
    Pedro/Brazil [15]
    Pericles/Greece [15]
    Peter/Russia [21]
    Philip/Spain [15]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [12]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [9]
    Saladin/Arabia [16]
    Seondeok/Korea [12]
    Shaka/Zulu [3]
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [16] (15+1) Simon has something extremely powerful for a religious victory in his set: movement. A key part of getting religious victory is moving missionaries and apostles from your cities to other cities. No one does this better than Gran Columbia. Not to mention, it’s like having logistics equipped early, so his fundamentals, setting up his empire, are actually pretty strong too.
    Suleiman/Ottomans [9] (12-3) I don’t see anything useful in this set.
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [16]
    Trajan/Rome [12]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [15]
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [12]
     

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