1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Religiously baffled

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by stormbind, Jun 16, 2007.

  1. puglover

    puglover Disturber of Worldviews

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2002
    Messages:
    9,643
    Location:
    Kansas
    Many other religions, such as the Baha'i Faith, believe the same way.
     
  2. PrincepsAmerica

    PrincepsAmerica Nothingness made flesh

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    602
    Location:
    America
    What the hell are you talking about? From...earth?

    By normal I would mean not God as Jesus claimed to be.

    Yeah that is precisely what I'm implying. What kind of antagonistic crap is this? I was referring to the fact that all the Old Testament prophets including Jesus, operated in the Holy Land not way down in the ass end of Arabia.

    Obviously this is a contentious issue and I'm not going to get into arguing what the true Church is but I will say that the men appointed by Jesus and their immediate successors, the Early Church if you will, would be what I was referencing.
     
  3. shadow2k

    shadow2k Emperor

    Joined:
    May 26, 2003
    Messages:
    1,059
    Location:
    Kansas City
    The very difference in the three Abrahamic faiths is who exactly was the messiah. They are not compatible with one another.

    Judaism was supposed to have one messiah, who they believe has not arrived yet. The Christians believe the Jewish messiah was Jesus...Christ means messiah. The Muslims believe the messiah was Mohammed. They don't really mix together well, it's a core belief of each faith that differs...and obviously, they don't mix together well at all. Especially when you have things like the Christians believing that their messiah was the son of this same God that all three believe in.
     
  4. Perfection

    Perfection The Great Head.

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Messages:
    49,773
    Location:
    Salisbury Plain
    That one element can be combined, but the other central elements? No way, Jose! (well, actually with religion there is always a way)
     
  5. Eran of Arcadia

    Eran of Arcadia Stormin' Mormon Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    23,090
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The Sunshine and Lettuce Capital of the World
    Indeed, if one so chooses one can practice a syncretic mix of Islam and Christianity, but it will probably be condemned as heretical by both, as they have such vastly different interpretations of (for example) Jesus of Nazareth.
     
  6. MadScotsMan

    MadScotsMan The Ruler of Cattle

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2006
    Messages:
    848
    Location:
    Downeast Maine
    you can't combine the two. You have to not accept one and accept the other. Do you accept Jesus as lord savior yadda yadda yadda all that other stuff then you are christian, and that contridicts what Mohammid said, which is that Jesus wasnt the Trinity or the savior of man. Just like you can't be a jewish christian....well you can be a converted jew :/ Watch Dogma. Great movie.

    I think I sounded slightly racist and/or heretical in this post.
     
  7. Cheezy the Wiz

    Cheezy the Wiz Socialist In A Hurry

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    25,238
    Location:
    Freedonia
    The way I see it, they are all different interpretations of God, and what he wants us to do. So long as you acknowledge the existence of the One True God, you're basically good to go. The rest is all just catering to different people's cultures, what poeple are comfortable with, and making the worship of that God acceptable to different people from different places and backgrounds.
     
  8. Perfection

    Perfection The Great Head.

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Messages:
    49,773
    Location:
    Salisbury Plain
    Why must there only be one true god?
     
  9. stormbind

    stormbind Retenta personam!

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2003
    Messages:
    14,081
    Location:
    London
    That is defined by the society. In some regions your stated religion effects who you can know, how well you can know them, what freedom you enjoy, and what positions in employment you can have.

    As a western example, many Muslims lost their jobs in the USA following 9/11.

    Eastern examples are different but very noticeable.
     
  10. stormbind

    stormbind Retenta personam!

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2003
    Messages:
    14,081
    Location:
    London
    Whoa... calm down! I questioned you because I could not respond properly without making assumptions about what you originally meant. I am not going to reply because I still do not know.

    Let me consider some points that were apparently said by Jesus.

    No entity except God is worthy of being called Father, yet there are a number of christian preachers who expect to be called Father.

    Jesus was the first and last. Obviously he did not mean the first prophet, so he cannot have meant the last prophet either.

    Jesus was a teacher and provides a demonstration on how to live a good life. He does not say there will be no more preachers or messengers.

    The church that Jesus spoke of was not an organisation, or a building, or a syllabus. The church that Jesus defined was a group of people who help each other.
     
  11. stormbind

    stormbind Retenta personam!

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2003
    Messages:
    14,081
    Location:
    London
    I would dispute that. Muslims do not believe that "Prophet Muhammed (pbuh)" is their messiah - they believe he is a messenger or preacher.

    Muslims believe the messiah is al-Mahdi who will come at the end of time, the son of a man.

    Christians believe the messiah is Jesus Christ who will return at the end of time, the son of man.

    Muslims believe that Jesus will return, that he and al-Mahdi will work together. Christians believe that Jesus Christ will be helped by others.

    Where the religions deviate is in geneology. For example, Jews deny Jesus Christ is the messiah because he was not a direct decendent of Solomon. Muslims believe al-Mahdi will be a direct decendent of Muhammed. etc. Such "them and us" tribal thinking is the basis of conflict in all human societies.

    Now let me throw in my own perception. There is concensus that Jesus Christ may come more than once. On each occation he has different ancestors - as such, the same spirit can fullfill all prophecies.
     
  12. Cheezy the Wiz

    Cheezy the Wiz Socialist In A Hurry

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    25,238
    Location:
    Freedonia
  13. Elrohir

    Elrohir RELATIONAL VALORIZATION

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2004
    Messages:
    12,507
    Why would God give mutually contradicting religions to humanity? Especially when Christianity has been successfully spread to pretty much any culture you can think of? Christianity is a universal religion, why would God create an extra religion that contradicted it, especially knowing they would fight later on?
     
  14. Cheezy the Wiz

    Cheezy the Wiz Socialist In A Hurry

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    25,238
    Location:
    Freedonia
    God didn't create religions, man did. Each is simply a different form of worshipping Him.
     
  15. puglover

    puglover Disturber of Worldviews

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2002
    Messages:
    9,643
    Location:
    Kansas
    But if it isn't "him" really, what's the point?
     
  16. Elrohir

    Elrohir RELATIONAL VALORIZATION

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2004
    Messages:
    12,507
    But aren't religions started by men who claim to heave heard from God? If both Mohammad and Jesus were from God, but they taught different things, how does that work out? Is God schizophrenic? "Oh yeah, Jesus....He's my Son, the Messiah, the only way to Heaven!" "Jesus was a cool guy, and a great prophet, but he wasn't actually my literal son....and he didn't die on the cross, and he isn't the way to heaven!" Does it make sense that God would give such disparate messages?
     
  17. Cheezy the Wiz

    Cheezy the Wiz Socialist In A Hurry

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    25,238
    Location:
    Freedonia
    Elaborate.

    Again, specifics. When it comes down to it, whether you regard Jesus of Nazareth as Christ or a great prophet, or simply a loving guy with some good ideas, if you believe God exists, that he is the only God, and accept Him into your heart, how can He deny you his love?
     
  18. Elrohir

    Elrohir RELATIONAL VALORIZATION

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2004
    Messages:
    12,507
    But Islam does not teach that you are supposed to "accept" Christ of God "into your heart". Islam teaches that by following the Five Pillars of Islam and the other commandments of God, you can be a "good man" and God will then have mercy on you and allow you into Paradise. Christianity teaches that it is not through performing a set number or set list of good deeds, but by allowing Christ into your heart that you are saved and are allowed into Heaven.

    They are completely different systems for salvation.
     
  19. Cheezy the Wiz

    Cheezy the Wiz Socialist In A Hurry

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    25,238
    Location:
    Freedonia

    Because the different religions cater to the different cultures in which they exist. God is God; He doesn't change, only the way in which men worship him does.
     
  20. Elrohir

    Elrohir RELATIONAL VALORIZATION

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2004
    Messages:
    12,507
    Why would God send Christ to die on the cross if man could earn salvation and eternity in Paradise solely through works on Earth? That doesn't make sense. Christ Himself said that no one can reach the Father except through Him. Was Christ lying? Why would he lie? And could he really be God if he did?

    I'm not even saying everyone outside of the Christian church is automatically and eternally damned. (I am of the opinion that those who don't get a "fair chance" at accepting Christ in this life get more chances after they die; it's more complicated than that, but that's the gist of my belief.) But saying that there are alternate ways to God directly contradicts Christ's teachings. If Christ is from God, then his teachings are true, and he is the only way to God. If there is more than one way to God, then Christ's teachings were not true, and he is not even a way to God. Take your pick. Either Christ is the only way man may be saved, or is no more important than a fairy tale, nice to listen to, but not going to actually save anyone.
     

Share This Page