Religous Debate: Does anyone know what the first commandment is?

[Mylon]

I hear people spout on about the 10 commandments fairly frequently. Nevermind that it's OT and the same people will dismiss nearly everything else from the OT, but the 10 commandments seem like a very frequently debated topic.

Yet whenever I discuss this with people, no one seems to know the first commandment and just how offensive and immoral it is. So do you know what the first commandment is?

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Right? Not quite. There's more. A _lot_ more. This is what preachers and other such don't want you to see. The text in whole, from Exodus 20:

3 "You shall have no other gods before me.

4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Your grand dad was an atheist? Too bad, you're going to hell. God finds it perfectly moral to punish people for "crimes" other people comitted. This is the kind of God they want to put on a pedastal, put on money, put in the pledge, and make laws for.

As a side note, some times the "Graven images" bit is referred to as the second commandment, but in reality there's only 9, not 10. Given the context, the graven images is very much bit of subtext of the second, and the Catholic 10th commandment (because they don't recognize the graven images as a separate commandment), which is from Exodus 20:17, is really splitting one commandment into two (9 being don't covet your neighbor's house, 10 being don't covet your neighbor's wife). But this is just spurious background information.

 

[El_Machinae]

I've heard that the way God speaks about other 'gods' implies that they actually exist, as well.

 

[Speedo]

Christianity bashing thread #23490323..... commence!

Your grand dad was an atheist? Too bad, you're going to hell. God finds it perfectly moral to punish people for "crimes" other people comitted. This is the kind of God they want to put on a pedastal, put on money, put in the pledge, and make laws for.

Try reading the New Testament, then we'll talk.

 

[IglooDame]

So really, it is the second commandment that you find offensive, unless you're using the Catholic ten.

 

[ironduck]

I've never understood how christians accept the god of the old testament, who is vengeful and vain beyond belief, as being the same god that they speak of as loving and forgiving.

 

[ironduck]

Since the 10 commandments are held in so high regards by christians, I assume that means that the text of Exodus is held in high regard.

So now that we have looked at chapter 20, why not turn the page to chapter 21?

Exodus 21:7-11 NIV

7 "If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do. 8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. 11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.

It's important to know the rules of honouring god.. and it's important to know the rules on how to go about selling one's daughter as a slave.

 

[Mylon]

No, there's only 9 commandments. I don't use the Protestant 10 or the Catholic 10. I call the shots as I see them. That there's only 9 is a non-sequiter that's besides the main point of the discussion.

As for the NT, Jesus said:

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. [/b]18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Yet another piece of scripture misquoted by Christians. They say, "Jesus fulfilled the law." and take it mean that it no longer applies. Nevermind that fulfill in this context is meaningless (many people approach it with their own idea of fulfillment in mind, skewing the text), but the context as a whole makes it very clear that the OT still applies. Every last bit of it, since after all, Heaven and Earth are still around. Well, the Earth bit is, anyway, but that's another non-sequiter.

But what about the commandment? Are you going to ignore that God punishes people for crimes they did not commit? Assuming you do handwave it with the NT, there still is the matter that God did it before Jesus. Tookie was executed even though he "reformed", but we're going to forgive God?

 

[MobBoss]

Yet whenever I discuss this with people, no one seems to know the first commandment and just how offensive and immoral it is. So do you know what the first commandment is?

Actually the first commandment isnt really a commandment, its a statement, I am the lord thy God, etc. etc. Apparently, you dont even know which is #1.

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Right? Not quite. There's more. A _lot_ more. This is what preachers and other such don't want you to see. The text in whole, from Exodus 20:

"Preachers dont want you to see"??? WTH. Its not like they go and hide the bible so you cant read it. It is there for ANYONE to see...including you apparently.

Your grand dad was an atheist? Too bad, you're going to hell. God finds it perfectly moral to punish people for "crimes" other people comitted. This is the kind of God they want to put on a pedastal, put on money, put in the pledge, and make laws for.

Apparently you dont understand very much about generational curses and they effects they can have. You also incorrectly assume that punish means "go to hell" and dont pass go to collect $200. What this means is that punishment from God can continue for several generations, UNLESS, someone along the line repents from the evil and return to their faith. Happens several times in old testament stories...like in the story of Jehosephat. Look it up, you might learn something.

Before you go spouting off on how evil the bible is, maybe, just maybe, you might want to educate yourself on it a bit prior to showing your intolerance.

 

[Red Door]

Wow! I just took out my bible and looked at the story of the Exodus, that's right, right down to every word. But that part about your grandfather is not true. God does not punish someone for somebody else's actions. Those are my beliefs.

You have to realize that God loves all his creatures. So if someone in a generation above you does something bad and you change it, God will not punish you. Also, my religion teachers (I go to Catholic School) have never hid that from me. I actually was looking for my notes and I found that we had copied those words exactly.

 

[ironduck]

Wow! I just took out my bible and looked at the story of the Exodus, that's right, right down to every word. But that part about your grandfather is not true. God does not punish someone for somebody else's actions. Those are my beliefs.

How do you feel about the trading of slaves, then? It's all right there in chapter 21.

 

[El_Machinae]

He does let the innocent suffer the actions of evil people, however, which is pretty well the same thing.

I think that Paul later gives exceptions regarding the application of the law. I pointed it out before, anyway.

 

[Red Door]

The Bible isn't exactly how you HAVE TO LIVE YOUR LIFE! You can not follow parts of the bible and still be a good Catholic. If you follow exactly the Bible, then you are a Protestant.
Just think, how many times is the office of the pope mentoned in the Bible?

 

[ironduck]

How about Exodus 21:17

17 "Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.

Or Exodus 21:20-21

20 "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, 21 but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

 

[ironduck]

The Bible isn't exactly how you HAVE TO LIVE YOUR LIFE! You can not follow parts of the bible and still be a good Catholic. If you follow exactly the Bible, then you are a Protestant.
Just think, how many times is the office of the pope mentoned in the Bible?

I don't care what denomination you belong to, I'm just wondering how you can accept the 10 commandments (chapter 20) as true and then ignore chapter 21.

 

[Kayak]

The Bible isn't exactly how you HAVE TO LIVE YOUR LIFE! You can not follow parts of the bible and still be a good Catholic. If you follow exactly the Bible, then you are a Protestant.
Just think, how many times is the office of the pope mentoned in the Bible?

But the OT was written with that intent. How else do you explain all of Leviticus for example?

 

[IglooDame]

The Bible isn't exactly how you HAVE TO LIVE YOUR LIFE! You can not follow parts of the bible and still be a good Catholic. If you follow exactly the Bible, then you are a Protestant.
Just think, how many times is the office of the pope mentoned in the Bible?

Actually various Protestant denominations vary according to the degree of literal interpretation, or so I'm told.

 

[MobBoss]

How do you feel about the trading of slaves, then? It's all right there in chapter 21.

Ironduck, slavery was a common practice back then and the bible even goes further in other chapters on how masters and slaves should treat one another.

In biblical metaphor, slave = employee and master = your boss. The bible says that regardless of your status, you should do your work as if you were working for God and should do the best you can regardless of your circumstance.

 

[Red Door]

Christians don't live by the Ten Commandments. Jews do however. This is because Jews live under the Law of Moses, which the Ten Commandments are part of. Christians live under the Law of Jesus. So we don't follow the Ten Commandments, they are universal moral law. Again Christians don't follow the Bible word-to-word.

 

[Truronian]

Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.

Repeated in Leviticus 20:9

At least its consistant.

 

[Red Door]

Actually various Protestant denominations vary according to the degree of literal interpretation, or so I'm told.

That's probably true. Like liberal Protestants wont follow it as much as conservative Protestants.