1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Remaking Tutorial System

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Enginseer, Jan 15, 2019.

  1. Enginseer

    Enginseer Salientia of the Community Patch Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2012
    Messages:
    2,995
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Somewhere in California
    We are remaking the Tutorial System and we would like the Community to suggest possible features that they didn't know initially when they first played this game. When remaking the Tutorial System, it means we basically removed all the vanilla Tutorials and VP Tutorials will instead take its place.

    So, what does the Community have in mind?

    Tutorial and Mistakes Trigger Topic Subtopics
    Welcome to Vox Populi! Begin a game. Voice of the People: Listing out major changes and brief stuff in the subtopics...
    • Tech Tree: Describing the ups and downs
    • Social Policies and Ideologies: Describing how the 3 sects of social policies evolving into an ideological thought.
    • New Units: The introduction of a Ranged Mounted Unit, introduced Recon, Siege, and Naval Warfare.
    • City-States: City-State Diplomacy incorporated.
    • Resources: More Luxuries incorporated along with Monopolies and Corporations.
    • Victory Changes: .....
    • War Mechanics: War Weariness, War Supply, and War Score.
    • New Concepts: Vassalization, Events System, Historic Events
    A Weak Army You have more than one city but your war supply is lower than 50% of your potential war supply! Big Stick Diplomacy: You clearly have no idea what you're doing. Don't you realize our military strength proves our worth to the world?
    • Why is this necessary?: Nations are more prone to military strength now...
    • Bullying: Bullying Mechanic.
    • Pledge of Protections: PtP Bonus and Requirements.
    Ah a strategic location! Researched Animal Husbandry or Bronze Working How strategic resources are useful... now!
    • Horse
    • Iron
    • Coal
    • Oil
    • Aluminum
    • Uranium
    A Voyage to Yonder and Wander Trained literally any unit that can access sea. Explaining Ocean Movements and Embarkment.
    Kingdom Comes! Capture your first city. Explaining your actions on what to do with the city.
    • Liberating
    • Annexing
    • Puppeting
    • Razing: this and also explaining pioneers and colonists
    Farm Farm Farm! Improve your first farm. Did you know some improvements benefit from adjacent copies of itself! Like the farm, just stack 3 farms near each other and they'll produce +1 more food!
    A Village Becomes a Town.. a City.. Improve your first village. Villages provide better bonuses if a trade route pass over them so be sure to build them along roads!
    Speak Softly... Construct your Scrienver's Office. You have now received a free Emissary for constructing the Scrienver's Office. They are the main source of City-State Influence!
    • How to train more emissaries?: Acquire paper.
    • How to get more paper?: Expend Great Diplomats or construct buildings that produce more of them like Wire Offices!
    Spying on the Spies Receive a spy. Spies.. what are they good for?
    • Spies: They do the same as always.
    • Thieves: An alternative to stealing technologies, these thieves can steal great works to hurt cultural leaders.
    • Basic Spy/Thief Actions: Explaining what spies and thieves can do in addition now to the cities they're placed in.
    • Diplomats: Place them in the enemy capital to gain intrigue and.. they're the same.
    Written Beliefs Found a pantheon. Explains the pantheon overview in reaching religionhood Founder Beliefs and Beliefs?
    Beware of Middle-Aged Men near Water Found a Religion Explaining how religion works
    • How to Enhance
    • How to Reform
    All the World's a Stage Be in a turn of World Congress Explaining the new resolutions...
    Commerce is a Thing Build a caravan or cargo ship Explaining the new trade routes system.
    Hit AND Run Build a Skirmisher Explaining how ranged mounted/armored units work.
    Greatness Awaits Any Great Person Explaining how each great person work
    • Great Artist
    • Great Writer
    • Great Musician
    • Great Scientist
    • Great Engineer
    • Great Merchant
    • Great Diplomat
    The Cavalry's Arrived Build a Catapult Ah you brought in the heavy troopers now? Lemme explains what change siege weaponry get while including in tips to destroy a city.
    Discontent Receive 1 unhappy from literally anything Explains how to relieve these sources and explain how other sources can come.
    Divide and Conquer Initiate a battle with two units adjacent to an enemy. Explain how new flanking work.
    A Great Leader A Great General arrives. Explains the ability of a Great General new for Vox Populi.
    A Great Leader in Water A Great Admiral arrives. Explains the new abilities of a Great Admiral.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
  2. ryanmusante

    ryanmusante Regular Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Messages:
    879
    vyyt likes this.
  3. Basilius

    Basilius Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Messages:
    48
    May I ask a slightly off-topic question? Will the VP team also be doing the scenarios? As it stands, scenarios cannot be done with VP.
     
  4. vyyt

    vyyt Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Messages:
    1,471
    Location:
    Czech Republic
    This is great news! I believe it will help the new players a lot!

    Would you expand a bit how it works and what options and limitations we have to work with? (E.g. there are only X number of characters we can squeeze in, no images, the tutorial popup can be invoked only during the human turn and while on the map - no popups in the city screen, etc.)

    Looking forward to this greatly. The in-game tooltips are very well written maintained, but still, graping the whole new game play concept for the new players may be overwhelming, this will definitely help.
     
  5. Enginseer

    Enginseer Salientia of the Community Patch Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2012
    Messages:
    2,995
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Somewhere in California
    We're working out the cogwork but we can definitely include images, and characters can be squeezed onto sub-topics. Tutorial Popup will always pop up during a human turn.

    ? You can make Scenarios with VP.
     
    vyyt likes this.
  6. CppMaster

    CppMaster Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2018
    Messages:
    834
    Location:
    Poland
    It's pointless to make scenarios until gold version of the mod is done, because any change could break these scenarios.
     
  7. JohannesWasHere

    JohannesWasHere Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2018
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Austria
    @Enginseer Great idea, starting off you guys should definitely make a big f***ing hint on the main VP page that screams VP TUTORIAL IN-GAME so new players know it actually exists.

    Puh there's a lot to tell new players so I think it's best to only focus on very few main points like Diplomacy, Cool Tech Tree, AI and Victories; and let them figure out the smaller ones themselves.
     
    vyyt likes this.
  8. ashendashin

    ashendashin Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2016
    Messages:
    896
    Considering the recurring annoyances we see on some of the smaller things, it might be better to address them. All things combat and happiness related would be good to include. Teaching the strength of garrisons and the necessity of a good melee force for sieges might go a long way.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
    vyyt likes this.
  9. Moi Magnus

    Moi Magnus Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2015
    Messages:
    1,605
    Tips I think should appear in the tutorial:

    1) Food and science lead to unhappiness. Prefer culture and production.

    2) Having a big army is required to have good diplomatic relations.

    3) Melee units are good. Iron and Horses are central to early game wars

    4) Circling a city give a lot of bonuses, and is strongly advised against well defended cities.

    5) Naval units can cross deep water but not stop on them, until Renaissance.

    6) Upgrading units is expensive, so should not be systematic.

    7) Pro and Cons of annexing/puppeting/liberating.

    8) Victory conditions, particularly the cultural victory.
     
    civplayer33, JohannesWasHere and vyyt like this.
  10. FoxOfWar

    FoxOfWar Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    352
    Location:
    Unimproved Forests of Finland
    I agree on tutorial underlining the importance of having a solid standing army, and the fact that you can't just outright buy an effective one - and the added fact that the AI *will* attack you if you have a weak army. In Vanilla you can get away with almost no army most of the game, just buying a fresh one if you get attacked and do fine because the combat AI stinks.

    I still lose games if I get sidetracked and go half an era without paying attention to the condition of my army, leading to expensive wars to get back the cities I lost which in turn tends to leave me far, far behind in other areas.
     
    Gokudo01 and vyyt like this.
  11. tu_79

    tu_79 Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    5,657
    Location:
    Malaga (Spain)
    Things I wish I knew my very first games.

    1. Village bonuses.
    2. Farms adjacency bonus.
    3. Cost and benefits of roads.
    4. Religion pressure.
    5. City State quests, diplomatic units and buildings.
    6. How cultural trees are unlocked.
    7. Usefulness of melee units.
    8. Technology unlocked units and resources, especially the Settler.
    9. Building synergies, like the forge that boosts copper.

    And I could think of a few more things that were changed in the last three years.
     
  12. SpankmyMetroid

    SpankmyMetroid Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Messages:
    158
    Promotions have changed pretty drastically. A note should be made of how the starter ones have been altered (shock vs... whatever the other one is) existing OP ones have been nerfed (march and logistics for example) and the additions of novel ones (the complete rework of the naval trees that give bonus exp, or air unit differentiation).

    I suppose having a compendium of all the promotions might get daunting, so at the very least inform players that promotions work much differently in VP.
     
    Skidizzle likes this.
  13. civplayer33

    civplayer33 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2017
    Messages:
    538
    I think it's better to focus on telling the player how VP works, rather than how VP is different from vanilla; I mean, as soon as a unit levels up the player will see that the promotions are different anyway and the differences aren't small enough that you could make an experienced vanilla player understand them in a few messages.
    Promotions are still promotions; they just have different effects and progression in VP, which the player needs to discover by looking at the actual promotions that exist...and I don't think there's a better way than just using Promotion Tree, which is compatible with VP.

    Perhaps VP could make people aware of that mod in a tutorial message? When I found it I couldn't believe that it wasn't part of the standard game; it's so incredibly useful and simple. In the modinfo file it says that it doesn't affect save games and is compatible with Hot Seat (not Multiplayer though), so why not just have a message pop up when the first unit levels up saying something like "Check out the mod Promotion Tree to easily learn the different kinds of promotions in Vox Populi! You can add it to a game that has already started (except Multiplayer games).".
     
  14. Mad Madigan

    Mad Madigan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2016
    Messages:
    376
    Adding to others' suggestions, an updated tutorial on how Spies/Thieves/Diplomats work would be very helpful for beginners, especially since the system is so different from Vanilla.
     
  15. Enginseer

    Enginseer Salientia of the Community Patch Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2012
    Messages:
    2,995
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Somewhere in California
    OP updated with suggestions taken into count. Unless I'm missing out, that should be mainly it in the tutorial is it not?

    Also, we're in the possibility of allowing the tutorial system to be expanded for modmods. So any possible modmods with game concepts or for any future scenarios... this will prove useful.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
  16. TranceBlossom

    TranceBlossom Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2018
    Messages:
    42
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Tokyo, Japan
    I wasn't aware you could do this...? I've never seen paper anywhere in the trade window.
     
  17. Enginseer

    Enginseer Salientia of the Community Patch Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2012
    Messages:
    2,995
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Somewhere in California
    Oh right I forgot... paper can't be traded a year ago now...
     
  18. ashendashin

    ashendashin Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2016
    Messages:
    896
    Um, so have you exclusively been modding the game like G? If you're the only ones doing this that might leave out some things. Maybe make everyone use it for a bit to get some feedback?
     
  19. Enginseer

    Enginseer Salientia of the Community Patch Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2012
    Messages:
    2,995
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Somewhere in California
    I play one game a month, that's why I don't recall. I assume the paper were unavailable since they were constantly used by the other civ's diplomatic units. The only modification I would do to the game is allowing huge map to settle a city 3 tiles away from each other rather than 4.
     
    ashendashin likes this.
  20. ashendashin

    ashendashin Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2016
    Messages:
    896
    Was just worried that you've spent all your Civ time helping out on github and working on your modmods :D. Otherwise your table looks good for the tutorial! Maybe don't say stuff like "Spies do the same as always". Some people(me) like to search for huge mods even if they've never played the game before, since spending a long time learning the game only to drop everything and adjust to a conversion can be problematic. But maybe you just did that for this thread where everyone knows the deal.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
    vyyt and civplayer33 like this.

Share This Page